Seth Goldman 0:00 When I launched Honestea, every crisis was something I lost sleep over and you know, terrified, and I was grinding my teeth to the point where I would have, you know, I'd have to get, I end up getting a mouthguard, because my just really were breaking. This time I actually did crack a tooth last month. So not a good sign. But I do have more perspective, I understand that it's part of the journey. And the journey is the destination. Now the goal here is to continue to learn and bring people along on this journey with us. And so I'm savoring the journey a little more than I might have had my honest Today's kevin edwards 0:48 a you are listening to the real leaders podcast where leaders keep it real. I'm your host, Kevin Edwards. And that wisdom comes from Seth Goldman, co founder of bonus tea, executive chair of the board at beyond me and current CEO of eat the change, who in today's episode, shares what mission driven entrepreneurs often forget how consumer diet changes can lead to climate change itself. And that the journey is the ultimate destination. So without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, please give it up for the real Seth golden. Enjoy. Or three, two and one and welcome, everyone, to this episode of the real leaders podcast. I'm your host, Kevin Edwards. Joining us today is the co founder and CEO of eat the change set Goleman said thanks for being with us today. Seth Goldman 1:51 Hey, Kevin, great to be with you. kevin edwards 1:53 Very excited to have you on. So Seth, we had yet the impact awards a couple weeks ago, he did a presentation on behavior change need to check out. Our audience might know you mainly for your work with honesty, which means mind sharing real quick, what eat to change is all about. Seth Goldman 2:09 Sure, yeah. And on this journey to help people move to a more sustainable diets and ideally, healthier diets. And so honesty I started 23 years ago, and then I got involved with beyond meat. I'm chairman of the board there. And this latest enterprise eight, the change is a food company where we're offering what we call chef crafted and planet friendly snacks. kevin edwards 2:36 Now said you consider yourself an act of this, right? Yeah. Now why I saw he had some background and politics. Why go into the private sector? Seth Goldman 2:47 Yeah, you know, I've always tried to think about what's the best way to make the most change. And I did work in politics, I met my wife on the campaign presidential campaign trail back in 88. And worked on Capitol Hill. And then as I was sort of thinking about where impact could come from, I started thinking about politics and realize that a lot of those changes go back and forth, you know, you change a party, or leader and you see changes on Todd, I realized that a lot of the changes that happened in the marketplace are much harder to undo. And you can even look over the past four years where, you know, the shift that's happened towards planet, or plant based diets has been really convincing. And it's happened regardless of what's going on in the White House or in sort of political dialogue. And I feel like those changes are permanent, are going to continue. And so thinking about if we can change the way people eat, that feels like the biggest, direct way for people to take action against climate change. kevin edwards 3:56 I would agree with that. I mean, that's the thing we do every single day, everyone eats three times a day. So they're, you know, put product purchases and the consumer touch it has on people can really drive impact. Now what did you learn with honesty in terms of the sourcing of the ingredients and how it can impact the environment, but also the communities that it serves Seth Goldman 4:16 The first thing we learned with honesty was just around health, you know that we could take less sugar at it, take sugar out of a product, and still make delicious and make people make it part of their habits and that would really change their behavior, but also change their health trajectory to calorie consumption. And as we learn more about the supply chain, we recognize that organic would be an important step. If we could help communities avoid putting chemical pesticides, chemical fertilizers into their ecosystem, it would be better for their whole biome all the plants and animals as well as the people, people picking the product. And then when we learn more about this community's reaction Eyes, there was an opportunity with fair trade, to help invest in the workers and in their communities and the economic empowerment. So for me, it was a recognition that there's a whole form of activism available to us as companies, if we can meet a need, we have the opportunity to also make change happen and communities that consumers might not even know about. As long as we uphold our promise to the consumer, we can deliver a product that's healthy, delicious, and nutritious. We get to do all these other things, possibly behind the scenes, possibly, you know, in front of the scenes too kevin edwards 5:35 now, Seth, you said you want to make sure that you're meeting the consumer demands now. Was this something that they were telling you about? Or was this more your, with, with your passions? Seth Goldman 5:48 It started just with my own personal diet and said, I don't want to drink with all that sugar. How come? No one's making a drink? That's less sweet, right. And unfortunately, I had my professor buried Elba who agreed, there was an opportunity. And the same is beyond me. You know, we always as a family felt like veggie burgers weren't good. But we didn't say, Boy, I wish somebody would take plants and find a way to reconstruct them in a way that perfectly mimics animal protein. But Ethan Brown had that idea. And when I met him and learned about what he's trying to do, I got involved in it helped him scale that business. And here too, we need to change. We people feel equaling a, there's a sense of frustration or anxiety about what's happening with the climate, and a feeling of powerlessness that they can't address it. And so we said, if we can give them foods that are delicious, and well packaged, well designed, but also planet friendly approach to them. There'll be demand for that. kevin edwards 6:52 When it comes to the original, a business model that you wrote out, like was that intention in there with being an honest tea, like honesty like was, wouldn't be an honest company? Maybe thing you could rely on for your decision making? Seth Goldman 7:08 Absolutely, yeah. If you go to the honesty website, we still have our original business plan around there. And it and it talks about it's called an aspiration, for social responsibility, because we were just getting started. So there's too much to claim we had a done. But that's involved in all the business I've involved in, you know, what I call a mission driven agenda. And it really underlines everything I've been involved in kevin edwards 7:34 real quick, I was just interested in like your professor like that's who you started with the Yale School of Management, like, what about Barry nail buff? Did you, like drove up to him? Seth Goldman 7:45 Yeah, I think we really were attracted to each other. And the way we thought the way we approach things, he was someone who's really creative. Definitely a little offbeat, not not the sort of straight down the lane, type of thinker or even as a professor. And he recognized that I had brought some creativity to the work I did in his class, as well as some projects outside of the class. And whenever we had a conversation and kind of lead to interesting directions, and, and I actually had continued to dialogue with them before I launch dynasty, but after I graduated from the Yale School of Management, where I had the US by him, and he always had thoughtful responses. And so when I came back across this idea for a less sweet drink, I, he was the first person I reached out to and said, You know, I think I'm ready to do something about this. And he responded, kevin edwards 8:39 and now you're working for Calvary investments at the time. I mean, that's right. That's a pretty lucrative career, like what made you want to go become an entrepreneur with all this risk? Seth Goldman 8:48 Yeah, it was great. But it felt a few steps removed from the arena, right? The arena, we were just investing in companies that were trying to do less bad. And so not only we weren't the companies we were, we were just representative investors. So I always had in my mind, if I could be the one actually not just avoiding bad things, but doing good things. That would be a really attractive thing to do. And I've always had that creative impulse. So eventually, I got restless enough that I felt like I need to go out and give it a try. kevin edwards 9:26 Well, we're glad you did it, and we're glad your wife lets you as well. Seth Goldman 9:31 She was on board. The whole way. kevin edwards 9:33 now you started this in your kitchen and then you know Coca Cola, you know, Vaizey out, scales the company, what comes along with that? Seth Goldman 9:44 Well, I like to think that Coca Cola and I scaled the company cuz you know, I stayed coke invested back in 2008. And I stayed for the next 11 years. So we really grew the business together. And I think that was so important because it helped ensure As we scaled the business, we maintain the mission, we maintain the brand ethos, and a lot of the team, of course. And we did grow over 15 fold from when coke first invested. So, no, that was good to see. But that's part of I think the success for scaling a mission driven brand is making sure you what we would say, keep it you keep it honest. kevin edwards 10:25 Now, you said with, you know, Barry, you know, he, he has some good conversations with him. It was it's nice and personal. He found you more on the creative side. What can you say about the team at Coca Cola that really, you know, let you be innovative in a space where, you know, it's a large corporation, they've got to, you know, maximize shareholder value. Seth Goldman 10:43 Coca Cola offered us this amazing distribution platform, right? We were in about 15,000, accounts before coke invested. Mostly those accounts were natural food stores. And when coke came in, we scaled to over 150,000 accounts, you know, including the chains I always dreamed up like McDonald's, Wendy's, chick fil a, subway, all these where we could have the opportunity to democratize organic food. kevin edwards 11:11 It begs the question, because most people think that maximizing shareholder value, you're trying to cut as much cost as possible. Now, when you went to an organic or fair trade, did you experience some trade offs? And how do you perceive those? Seth Goldman 11:27 No question. I mean, fair trade is absolutely about increasing your cost of goods. And what was exciting about how honesty evolved was that when coke first invested, we were only I think 40% of our teas were Fairtrade certified. by three years in, we made all of the Teas Fairtrade certified, and then another two or three years, and we actually converted the entire sugar supply chain to be Fairtrade certified. So all of those steps involve increasing our cost of goods, they moved very much counter to that stereotype to Coca Cola credit, they recognize that what we were building was a mission driven brand. And we had to keep it authentic for it to be relevant to the folks who would embrace it, not the people looking for that kind of thing. So I think as long as you're clear about what your guardrails are, and what you stand for, and you hold the line on it, you'll be able to scale your impact. kevin edwards 12:29 Do you see that as an investment or an expense? Seth Goldman 12:36 Well, it is an expense made, it comes out of your cost of goods, but it's what you've created. And obviously, if you're trying to build something long term sustainable, then you have to keep investing in it. kevin edwards 12:50 So let's now go to eat the change. We've got a product line now it's a mushroom jerky. Tell us a little bit about that, how that process went. Seth Goldman 12:58 It's really fun. We have a restaurant concept that we started here in the Mid Atlantic, in the US, and it's seven outlets called plant burger, that sell plant based. And as we started learning more about mushrooms, I took the team to go visit a organic family farm in Pennsylvania. We realize how incredible mushrooms are as an ingredient. They are so versatile, they can take on all types of different tastes. But they're also one of the most sustainable crops because they feed on waste, they are. They can be grown very quickly, they actually are grown inside and really an under appreciated crop. And so with my co founder kg spike Mendelsohn is a celebrity chef is a great person to be able to turn mushrooms over the insights and make these delicious again. And so we already have the organic certification, but we really recognize there was an opportunity to try to address every step of the way, how to make it friendly, offering so organic plant based or in this case on guide base. Using the imperfect mushrooms are what we call the perfectly imperfect because they taste great, they just don't look the size that people expect when they buy it in the store. And then making the packaging as recyclable as we can. And then we also took the unusual step of ruling out ingredients that are represent a lot of monocultures. And it turns out there are six crops that represent over 57% of all agricultural production in the world. So let's leave all those out. If we really tried to support more biodiversity, let's commit to using everything except those ingredients. And so it's created a really fun, delicious line that we hoped will be embraced by people as a great snack alternative obviously a great idea. alternative to animal based meat, but also just a delicious snack. very savory and satiating. kevin edwards 15:07 I think it will, you know, I think, let's see responsible packaging, sustainable production. grown indoors. Now how's the water usage with growing mushrooms? Seth Goldman 15:19 mushrooms are really efficient. They basically they are very water intense. They they're about 90% water, which is a lot, right. But there's no waste. You don't have like a field where water is sprayed. And then obviously, a lot of the water doesn't get absorbed by the plants. There's no real spraying a mushroom. So the water or it's not spent. It's it ends up in the mushroom. Got it? Yeah. kevin edwards 15:47 And that's, that's why it's it's not a plant, right? Like all the head of the mushroom is like we're on the water store. It's actually the reproductive part. And then I think of plants, like the difference between a planet mushroom is that it produces like, yeah, fruits, things like that. Right. Interesting. And so now when it comes to like, a competitive edge, like do you think that mission driven products or mission driven companies hold that competitive edge by doing something that's different than what's out in the market? Seth Goldman 16:15 You know, it's not a guarantee. I mean, for me personally, of course, it's a huge motivation, and I believe for my team as well. But a mistake that mission driven entrepreneurs often make is they assume all people are gonna love this because of our mission. And all we're doing in the fact is, you've got a, that's not the job, they hire you. So when someone is buying and mushroom jerky, they're buying because they're hungry, they want something good to eat, right, something that tastes good. And I can tell them all about our environmental commitments, and the fact that there's no soy, wheat, corn, rice, sugar, potatoes, but how does it taste, so it's got to taste good. And if it tastes good, and if it's well packaged and priced competitively, then the mission can be an advantage. But I often say it's a it's a deciding factor. Maybe it's a little tip, but it's the core part of the offering. kevin edwards 17:13 how does it taste? I mean, be like, Okay, how do you choose the different flavors, it's 150 calories, what are the health benefits? Seth Goldman 17:22 What's so neat about it is that mushrooms are like a blank canvas. So they just absorb all these different, whatever spite paints on them. In this case, it's flavors. We have like a sea salt and cracked pepper. And we have a maple mustard variety. And they're just so flavorful. And they're moist. They but they also rehydrate in your mouth. So it's just a really delicious and fun thing to eat. kevin edwards 17:51 Seth, you were just at beyond meat, Why make this transition now in your career? Seth Goldman 17:56 Well, I love my work would beyond meat. And I'm still very, you know, Chair very engaged as chair of the board. But I, after we made a public, we started bringing in professional, which was absolutely the right thing to do. And I thought, this is a good time for me to go back into the startup mode. I like that challenge of starting from scratch. And this was a way to do that. I was joking. Well, then I went back into the shallow end of the pool, the deep end of the pool. But it's been a lot of fun. kevin edwards 18:31 And I'm about to get a little philosophical on you. Is this something that you felt like you needed to do? Like this is something that you felt you're in a position to do with your experience? Seth Goldman 18:44 An interesting question, I, I feel like all of the work I do is work I believe in. And I try not to spread this around. But all of this work I would do. If I, whether I got paid or not, I do it because I believe in it. So this is as I think about sort of the way the world is evolving and the crises we face. Climate is such a huge one. And if we don't change the direction we're headed, we're gonna end up where we're going, which is totally unsustainable. So I felt like you do everything I could to reverse these trends, obviously, beyond meat is a key part of that as well. And I'm fortunate enough to continue to support that work as chair of the board. And then I thought, well, what's an additional way to take action because not everybody is eating beyond meat or they're eating, you know, meat all the time. There's other things they eat. So how do we create additional food options that can be more sustainable? kevin edwards 19:47 Do you feel like this could seriously have an impact on the climate? I mean, a lot of people are still debating that right now will will that many people switch their diets over to have a sincere impact, what would you say to a question like that? Seth Goldman 20:02 Well, it has to, and I don't mean eat the change as a brand on its own. But it's really a we need a movement, we need a global movement of people switching their diet. So you are seeing global awareness and hope for action around climate change, you're not seeing as much around diet. And there was a wonderful report just issued last week from Chatham House about the importance of protecting biodiversity and how it's really central. And the key step they identified was adjusting our diet. So one of the doing to change obviously, is launching this brand of mushroom jerky. But we also are doing everything we can to support the nonprofit side, we announced the grants program last year, where we're donating a million dollars over three years, to community based nonprofits that are helping expand and democratize planet friendly diets. So they work with their communities, to educate people to provide them with options, and help make both healthier, and more planet friendly foods available. So it's a really young age that has an impact. We need nonprofits, we need government, and we need for profit businesses doing that. And we certainly hope to be a leader in that. kevin edwards 21:23 Seth, a lot of impact CEOs who are for profit capitalists, as philanthropic as they are like, they will not use those profits to go into a nonprofit, they will invest back into the communities that they serve, such as the tea makers, right in rural communities, building schools, for them things like that support, you know, their their well being, why go into this nonprofit, what was the thinking and logic behind that? Seth Goldman 21:48 Well, it's interesting, there's actually two separate pots of money. So the grants program is personal money that my wife and I are donating, and we're doing it under the name of it. But those are checks being written out of our own bank account, because it's what we believe in, I say we would do it, whether it was a company or not. But with respect to the business, I actually think that the business that we conduct the bathroom is, so when we can support these farmers, organic family farms, of mushrooms, or other crops that were growing. And we can help support their business model that will in turn displace some of the less sustainable agricultural models that are out there. So I've always been a believer that the when you say follow the money, it's, it's the biggest checks we write as a business are to our suppliers. And so how who, who we buy from and how they grow their product. Those are the key drivers of our impact. kevin edwards 22:53 How now how closely Do you work with these suppliers now, especially with the Honest Tea example? Like you say, you didn't start out with fair trade? Like how, what would those relationships look like? And how did they change? Seth Goldman 23:05 Yeah, they grew over the years, as we continue to get to know these communities, we were able to, you know, first help them move, make the shift to organic, and then to fair trade. And then with fair trade, we got the opportunity to understand their needs more deeply. And they always wants to identify where the money should go. So we never said, Hey, we want to go build a playground, that wasn't something they want. And by the way, they weren't interested in playgrounds, they had much more basic needs. But they would occasionally suggest something. And so we worked on a project up in northern India with icare, I had a friend who had created a nonprofit to make affordable eye care available. And I said, can we bring this to the community and we had over 6000 villagers up in northern India, received their first eye care appointment, and some of them got glasses, some of them had treatment for cataracts, that kind of thing. But eye care is critical, because it connects directly to literacy, or the ability to work. You know, if you can't see details, not only can you not pick tea leaves well, but you can't. So seems seamster or other balls being able to see so we really want to make sure we're connecting with the community around the needs, they identify. kevin edwards 24:28 And just going off your point of how the private sector can make meaningful change. That's one example of transformative live now, that's kind of what impact means, to me said transforming lives. What does impact mean to you? Seth Goldman 24:40 Well, certainly lives are important, but think about the planet too. So what we're doing at eat the change we hope is giving people a vehicle to change their impact on the planet. So the ideal form of impact that I think about is how do we empower people because companies on their own, don't have much impact. It's only when they succeed in building a relationship with the consumer, that that impact is multiplied. I'll give you an example. And honesty, we successfully got honest kids to be carried by McDonald's. And that was such a huge win, because the drink that McDonald's was offering before we went in was about 80 calories per serving. And we brought a calorie drink in, we sold over 200 million units through McDonald's, which meant that in a year, we were able to remove over a billion calories from the American diet. And that was only because we got the companies and the consumers to embrace this approach. And of course, you that kids appetite for less sweet drinks. And then also it's the first organic product for millions of these consumers. And so that's exciting because it starts them getting exposed to these ingredients into this approach at an earlier age. kevin edwards 26:02 I had an odd day in my life, Seth with honesty, and when I was hungry was a Sunday, I went to five guys. And you know, when you get the meal today, that's where they'll get you. Right? You get the meal, which comes with a drink and fries. Yes. So I get a burger, right, you know, and then I think I wait. Coca Cola is here and I went down. Like, I'll get the honestea, I don't drink soda anymore. So I get the honestea was great. And then I started thinking like, Man, I'm so still kind of hungry. So you know what, but I don't want that. That's that feeling in my stomach. So I went to a plant burger place the next day, or sorry, that same day. So I had a I had a burger for lunch and a plant based burger at night. Just so you know. And I tell you what, man, I gotta go with the plant burger. I think it tastes better. I don't think it has anything to do with anything else. It just tastes better for me. Seth Goldman 26:53 Well, that's the key of going back to what I said, You've got to deliver on that first proposition. You know, if the plant burger didn't taste good, you wouldn't have gone back and that business would have succeeded. So you've always got to deliver on the job that the consumer hires you to do. kevin edwards 27:10 Now, what was interesting about that restaurant is they make the, the plant beef in the actual place itself, I believe. How is that possible? I thought that takes like forever to make. Seth Goldman 27:23 Well, I didn't taste it, I'm willing to bet it's not quite as good as some of the products offered by beyond meat where there's real science and process going into it. So my you know, people can push stuff together, and you put enough spices on it or enough grease, it can still taste pretty good. kevin edwards 27:43 The other thing I just don't feel bad about eating and that's the best part is you don't need a big burger like that. And the ingredients are good that you know, the tomatoes are good as well. Now the the jerky that you're making, you know, how long does it take to make that meat chef crafted? Where does it begin? And where does it end? Seth Goldman 28:01 Really, my short, very short lifecycle. I mean, it takes a lot of prep time, but growing them only takes a few weeks. So we picked the mushrooms, we bring them to a smokehouse, the same kind of facility where beef jerky is made, but obviously not on our equipment. And you basically once the mushrooms are picked you up about 10 days before you have to smoke them. And some you know you're talking less than two months from when the product is start growing to when it ends up in a bag. kevin edwards 28:37 Okay, now mushrooms themselves. Your first product line is this jerky? Are you planning on expanding to different forms of mushrooms? Seth Goldman 28:47 We're starting with a jerky, and we'll see where it goes. Obviously, you've got to make sure your first product line succeeds. But when we think about the guardrails that need to change, it's all about what I said you know that plant based or one guy based on organic biodiversity, it's great to start with mushrooms, but it's not confined to mushrooms and we expect to expand this platform into multiple snacking occasions. kevin edwards 29:18 Now this to my knowledge and correct me if I'm wrong set, eat the change started in 2020. Was this started out of the pandemic? Or did the pandemic accelerate that how are you planning the change in this new way of living? Seth Goldman 29:34 Well, it wasn't timed around the pandemic except that we recognized that this was not the right time to launch a new brand in the midst of the pandemic. So what we did in 2020 was a lot of the planning and designing and it's rare, you get that chance to really think expansively thinking about the branding the right way, the design of the even the logo, all these things that you know When you're in a business, you just have to move so quickly. So we really was a luxury to be able to think about the brand of the business. And to launch the grants program. You know, we launched the grants program before we launched the brand. But that helped us further define exactly what we want to support and stand for. So that was good. And now we're just launching the brand into retail. And so it's fun to see the retailers respond. And of course, the next few weeks, we'll start to see how consumers respond. kevin edwards 30:29 Now, you mentioned the the logo aspect of this. And that's got to be the most fun part. But also, a lot of people have different opinions. Can you kind of walk our audience through how you came up with the design. Seth Goldman 30:40 you know, we did a whole blog about it, because it really was this case of a bunch of things came together, different symbols, we were trying to communicate balance and harmony, and sort of optimism. And we worked with the designers who we'd been with that honesty, these two wonderful women who I've known for decades now. And that really created something unique. So it looks a little bit like the Yin Yang, where you see the contrast and colors and balance, it looks a little bit like a wave. And that can be a wave of change. Some people have said that looks a little bit like an embryo, which can be the form of a new life or hopeful sign. And other people have seen like Sonra at the beginning of a new day. And my point of view is like all of that work, whatever you see in it is fine with me, as long as that sort of communicates that sense of hopefulness and thinking about balance. kevin edwards 31:43 I saw it as the Ying Yang. And I love the yin and the yang, because it's it's order in chaos and order. Well what chaos has come with, you know, starting a company like this in your personal life, and also in your professional life. Seth Goldman 31:58 That's just par for the course. I mean, that's the life of being an entrepreneur is dealing with uncertainty, dealing with a world that is not perfect. But I mean, that's, you know how we all live too, right? So the difference this time around the contrast to honestea, which was 23 years ago, is that I have a little more perspective. And I think when I launch honestea, every crisis was something I lost sleep over and you know, terrified, and I was grinding my teeth to the point where I would have, you know, I'd have to get up getting amalco because my just really for we're breaking. This time I actually did crack a tooth last month. Not a good sign. But I do have more perspective, I understand that it's part of the journey. And the journey is the destination. Now the goal here is to continue to learn and bring people along on this journey with us. And so I'm savoring the journey a little more than I might have had, during my honestea days. kevin edwards 33:10 I've heard that from Kobe Bryant, Tom Brady, maybe elaborate on that a little bit more that that dream is the journey? Seth Goldman 33:17 Yeah, just learning, curiosity, exploring new things, stretching yourself in new directions, you know that the only destination is when you're done, and I don't like to think of myself as being done. It's, it's continuing to build this and until the world doesn't face climate change is a real risk. You know, I'm gonna keep working on it. So I'm afraid it'll be even more decades. kevin edwards 33:46 Seth, what have you learned from all this? What's really worked for you? I mean, are you in the meditation? Are you into exercise? Obviously, you eat healthy, what are some things that worked for you? Seth Goldman 33:57 Yeah, exercise really helps. It's critical to have a vehicle to take out tensions, to be able to have solitary time to think through things and process them. I always feel more balanced and better perspective exercising. I have always invested in relationships, especially with my wife. And so making sure that that is healthy and strong is there's trust and, and openness and being a willingness to share, whether it's fear or hopes, that being a transplant there, you It's too much. You're carrying, it's all bottled up inside of you. So those things are critical. And then having great partners, you know, the employees who were building this my co founder spike, as well as the, on the team, a lot of whom I worked with over previous enterprises, just makes it a more joyful undertaking. kevin edwards 34:54 And have you felt that people that are coming to your organization are coming with the same sense of shared values. Seth Goldman 35:02 Yeah, there's clearly an expectation, you know, based on my track record and the brands that I'm building, that you're not just checking a box here. And I don't want to, you know, check in the box, I want folks who, who feel a cause here who, who are driven to find a way to make their work meaningful. That said, you know, we still need a financial statements and be accurate. So I'm gonna choose competence every time. But it's really wonderful to feel like, this is a journey, we're on together, something we all care about kevin edwards 35:38 Someone told me, this is a leadership podcast. So maybe I asked you about leadership a little bit, starting with the company, from a small stage to then scaling it, how the responsibilities change, and maybe your perspective or takeaways from that growth? Seth Goldman 35:55 Yeah, that's an interesting question. Because I'm one of the few entrepreneurs who stick around to scale the business, right? You know, a lot of entrepreneurs start up a business, sell it off and start the next thing. And I find that the work, I enjoy all phases of the business. And ultimately, it's all the same work, it's just at a different scale. So the first task any entrepreneur has to have is to create the vision, to think about what is the purpose of the business, how we communicate it, and to spread it. So to be the advocate for it. And, you know, a lot of the big early stages, it's, it's one on one conversations with a buyer or a partner or an investor or the first in place. But then as you grow the business, it's just that same conversation with more folks. And then it's tracting, and raising the resources to grow the business, make sure the team has the tools to deploy. And so usually, that's money. And of course, with honestea, starting early, it was raising $25,000 at a time, which was a lot of conversations, or I probably succeeded in one out of 10 conversations, I get a check written. And then of course, with beyond me, we raised much larger sums, but it really was the same conversations, maybe different investors, but that same discipline. And then the third key piece is hiring the right people, and putting them in the right positions, and helping them achieve success to carry out the vision. And so there are two, you've got to get the team, right. And if you get the team right early, then it's scalable. If you don't create the right values are read expectations. It's not scalable. So you know, what we're doing with eat the change this year, this first year, where we have nine employees, is a lot of focus on developing this team, developing the norms of the company, how we interact, and how we communicate what we expect of each other. And if you get a ride, it's scalable. Now, how are you articulating those norms? kevin edwards 38:06 How are you articulating that vision? Especially, you know, being Seth Goldman 38:11 Virtually Yeah. So we have a lot of company meetings. It's funny, because I am not a big meeting person, I don't stretch it out. But twice a week, we'll have any wide calls where everyone checks in gives updates. And you know, usually it's 15 minutes, but we've had ones that have 15, bring it check the box, we're done. We don't need to sit here for an hour. And then I also have one on one meetings with all of my directors. And actually, probably right now, it's twice a week, just because so much is happening. We're at a point of launching the business getting production, right. And so there's a lot of checking in on people and making sure they have the right guidance, the right resources they need to execute. kevin edwards 38:59 How do you know when your team's like a well oiled machine? I mean, do you is that just a feeling? Seth Goldman 39:06 It is and there's all but there's a lot of indicators. And so they've been I'm really fortunate with this interchange new business, where something and and it's exactly what I would have done if I had gotten involved. But I didn't evolve. And so and I'll certainly reinforce when that's the case, they guys like that was a, there was a crisis there and you handled it exactly the right way. And so you know, of course, alternatively, when you see things that aren't right, you were able to innovate and to help people rethink how we would have approached it. kevin edwards 39:41 Now, when you were at Calvert investments, did you have an emphasis on like data driven decisions? And now in this day and age, like how many you had to give me like a ratio like how many are maybe it's not a ratio, just how do you see data driven decisions versus going With your gut. Seth Goldman 40:01 You know, one of the things I like about being an entrepreneur is very gut driven, when you try to ground your decisions and facts, but you can get so mired in data, you lose sight of what's happening. And we saw it so often company, I remember where Coca Cola had done some testing of honors kids, our kids drink, and they said, you know, we looked at the data and kids don't drink it. Yeah. We knew that how we designed, we wanted it to taste good enough that a parent would choose it, and the kid wouldn't reject it, we knew that parents would favorite because of the calorie profile. So all we had to do was make it taste good enough, which of course, isn't a great marketing slogan. But they just, you know, when you get so data driven, you miss the context for a purchase or repurchase or, or loyalty. kevin edwards 41:00 Right, right now, when it comes to like humanity, and like those ethical decisions, like have you had that make any difficult decisions where you had to choose one over the other? Seth Goldman 41:12 Sure. And I'd like to think there's never been an occasion where I've decided not to do something that's consistent with the mission of the brand. But I've had to recognize that time curve, the arc we're on. So you know, as we learned about fair trade, we realized this was something we got it with all of our key suppliers, and of course with sugar, but we also know couldn't do it overnight. And so in 2003, after we launched the first Fairtrade bottled tea, it took us eight years to get the rest of the line to be Fairtrade certified in of course, we did it and the brand is still all Fairtrade certified and, and growing. But if we'd made that early decision to go Fairtrade in 2003, we could have taken the business under our margins would have been compressed, or we would have raised our price to the point where it wasn't financially viable. So I think it's just important to recognize, like I said, the journey, and as long as you're sticking it out, then it's fine to take it in a way that is, you know, sustainable. kevin edwards 42:20 A few guests come on the show, and I just like, you know, you can't manage what you can't measure and you hear time and time again, some people have proven me wrong on that. But how do you kind of see that like, theory of not being able to manage what you can't measure? And are you taking into account your impact metrics? Seth Goldman 42:40 Yes. And for me, the best way to measure your impact is to ingrain your mission into your product. And they'll just do everything you can to sell as much of your product as you can. So Stevie, wonder, are we promoting organic? Yes, we sell the product, are we promoting fair trade, every time we sell the same way beyond, we knew that every time we sold out beyond burger, we were helping somebody who very likely was going to choose an animal based product. And so the best way to measure that was to understand the environmental footprint of one burger. And we learned it uses 99%, less water and 93% less land a lot of positive aspects, and then just sell millions of burgers. Ideally, billions of burgers, and your impact magnifies with it. kevin edwards 43:33 What are some of the science clean? And that makes a lot of sense, because I was thinking about freshwater use. And like, it's like 98% of the world's freshwater is like goes to that agriculture goes to those. Have you come across any other scientific revelations that kind of just like taking you back? Seth Goldman 43:52 Well, I was surprised when we learned that there are six crops that represent 57% of all agriculture. There's so many plants, there's hundreds of thousands of plants in the world. And the idea that we should be so dependent on six crops is absurd, not to mention the huge risk when you think about climate shocks or disease that could kill off a crop. So we've got to diversify our diets to create a more resilient planet. kevin edwards 44:19 Mushrooms are really interesting. Have you written Have you read into any other research about mushrooms and Seth Goldman 44:24 like, oh, there's tons Yeah, it's amazing. There. They talk about mushrooms as the World Wide Web, this kind of got to Earth that really helps trees communicates with each other. They play a incredible role. Even in bio remediation, I mean, sometimes literally in an oil spill. But in other cases, just helping Earth and ideally correct some of man's less sustainable habits. So mushrooms only going to grow both in popularity. diet but also being appreciated for the role they play in making the planet more livable, kevin edwards 45:08 I think is a true top interesting topic because Paul Stamets who came on the show, the number one podcast for some reason people flocked to Paul Stamets in love mushrooms now, he talked about mycelium and the mycelium network that you're that you're describing here, and one mushroom can have a mycelium network of acres underneath amazing crazy what they can do. The other thing that's interesting about it is Coronavirus. There's more diseases coming from subtropical areas spread by mosquitoes. And one of the things that can attract them as those mosquitoes away from major populations are mushrooms. Well, so there's so many benefits and when it comes to health, it's another great aspect of that now, are you looking I guess this question earlier, are you looking into any other types of mushrooms, so that then just did the two? Seth Goldman 46:00 Well, we're always playing around with mushrooms. And at the restaurant, we use the fruiting body of an oyster mushroom to make a product we call our crispy chicken fun guys sandwich. So we're looking at lots of different varieties. But we also have to what we put in a package is both scalable and affordable. And so portabella and cremini are some of the more scaled crops that we can put into a package and still offer our product for you know, less than $6 kevin edwards 46:29 and Pennsylvania's the like the capital of mushrooms, right Seth Goldman 46:33 mushroom capital of the world. Yeah, Kennett square Pennsylvania supplies 64% of all the mushrooms consumed in the United States. So it's a incredible that all comes from the kevin edwards 46:44 will I'm excited to see kind of where this goes, how these consumer habits will change. And, you know, we talked a lot about today about kind of why you started this in the first place, why you left the other organizations to continue this journey, this destination. Now, let's wrap this up and bring this home. Seth, what is your definition of a real leader? Seth Goldman 47:05 a real leader is somebody who gets people to follow them, not because they have a position or a title, but because their ideas and their example, are so compelling that people feel inspired to take the course. Created by that later. kevin edwards 47:27 Well, it says that, Seth, it's been a pleasure speaking with you today. Hope you stick around for a few questions afterwards. But for Seth Coleman, I'm Kevin Edwards asking you to go out there and influence others with your ideas and example, and always folks, keep it real. Thanks, Seth. Seth Goldman 47:41 Thanks, Kevin. All right, good kevin edwards 47:43 people. Thanks for hanging on to this episode of the real leaders podcast. Cool thing about crowdcast is you get to be a part of the conversation. So a few questions flying in here. And the first one is this, Seth? It's his etc, the change and employment? Seth Goldman 48:03 Yes, we have employee who own stock. It's not entirely employee on we also have other shareholders, but every employee stock in the company, for sure. kevin edwards 48:14 Are you interested in Aesop's and all that can tend to be a new trend that's coming up? Seth Goldman 48:21 My challenge with them is how do I create an exit for our investors? You know, we did raise money from investors. And so I've just got to make sure I can deliver on that. So I'm not opposed to it. But like I say it in every company I've been with employees have had meaningful equity stakes and what we're doing so that whatever the outcome is, they benefited and both with honesty and beyond me, people had a really nice outcome. kevin edwards 48:54 So this one comes in from Jonathan, and he asked Seth, how do you see regenerative agriculture moving into the forefront improving in supporting biodiversity? Seth Goldman 49:05 It's critical. And I'm a huge supporter and believer in regenerative agriculture. So one frustration I have is that the principles of organic agriculture, I believe, really are the same as regenerative. And so I don't think there's a need to create a third standard, I would rather see us really invest in support organic, and if we can do that, and maybe that's something people look for, which obviously, we're trying to do with each change, and we did with honesty as well. I hope that will be part of it, but you can't leave it out. And so I've conversations with some of the folks focus on hydroponics and some other forms of agriculture and I say but what about the soil? You know, there's we need to be Investing in soil and sustainable agriculture, as well as avoiding, you know, clear cutting forests and other things are going to be an important part of that. kevin edwards 50:11 Definitely. Isn't the soil have the grid effect on carbon sequestering as well? Seth Goldman 50:16 Yeah, totally. And if you can either have keep forests or adopt no till farming and other organic farming methods, you'd have a much better shot of protecting. kevin edwards 50:30 Interesting. Another one comes in from Madeline. And she asks, what was the turning point for you to go plant based? Seth Goldman 50:38 It's fun one. So we started as vegetarians. 15 years ago, now, my oldest son was having his Bar Mitzvah, and he had already been vegetarian. For three years, he had already convinced his brothers to be vegetarian. But as part of he presented a Torah interpretation, which was all about the kosher preparation of animals, which involves filling up the blood, and they say, you shouldn't drink the blood because the blood is the life and you shouldn't eat the life. He says, if we're concerned with not eating the life, but if I kill the animal, and if we can meet our dietary needs without having to kill animals, why wouldn't we try to do that? So we started as a family to be vegetarian then. And we're happy with the decision from a ethical perspective, but frequently disappointed when it was burger night, or other occasions. And so we're always looking for that something that can help bridge that of course, that's what beyond me did. And we became vegan, just about a year ago, when we after seeing the game changers, and my middle son said, I'm gonna do this and reasonable try it. And actually, it's been a really positive impact on our family dynamic. It's made us much more thoughtful and mindful about our food. And particularly in a year where this pandemic which is based on a zoonotic disease, made it feel like we are thinking about our food choices in a more comprehensive way and mindful what interesting, it is, isn't kevin edwards 52:14 it Do not disease, and is interested in our thought about that in terms of veganism as well. Now, do you have to supplement your diet at all need to take pills or anything like that? Seth Goldman 52:23 I take a What do you call it just a central, you know, a vitamin, which I'm told that you should be taking anyway. So I think I'd be taken out if I were a vegetarian or not just because you need to make sure you're getting all the nutrients. But I actually feel better. And I have, and it's neat to see my I do a lot of swimming. My swim times now have been faster than they've ever been. And my biking, summer was better than it ever been as well. So it's good to feel like even as you're getting older, you're not necessarily declining. kevin edwards 53:02 Interesting. Yeah, that was a big part of that movie. The game changers is like, you know, athletes can compete with each other on you know, non, or non meat or just plant based diets and Seth Goldman 53:13 watch better recovery to quicker and just less soreness. kevin edwards 53:19 This one comes in from Julian, she asks excellent perspectives question as a leader in the space, how do you think ahead to adjust to competitive and innovative challenges? Seth Goldman 53:30 Well, the best way to do that is to keep innovating. without even thinking about the, you know, one of the things I said at both the army and with the changes, you know, use your steer by the stars, not by the other ships, right, you have to think about where you want to go. Don't worry about what people are doing around you. So we should challenge ourselves to keep improving our product, improving our packaging, improving everything all the time. Sometimes there's competitors out there that have a little different approach. And it's worth questioning what you're doing. And ideally, your answers pulled up and ideally the consumer agrees, but we never tried to respond tickets to the competition, as much as anticipate where we hope consumers can go. kevin edwards 54:22 Seth, it's been a pleasure having you on the show. That was the last thing question. Hey, thanks, everyone, for hanging on to this interview. Let's head Goleman not set. Any last words you have for where people can find more information about eat the change? Seth Goldman 54:35 Thank you. Yeah, so eat calm is the site for the business. And we actually do take orders there. We also have a change.org where we give information about the wonderful changemakers we're funding around the countries that are helping promote planet friendly diets in communities that often lack access to them. So, look, this is a movement. We have a brand but you We want everybody to eat the change. We want everybody to take steps and we're having a fun promotion coming up in April, where we want to empower people to take those steps as well. So keep an eye out for that. kevin edwards 55:11 In real quick as well said this has rolled out to stores where can I find the bag of this jerky? Seth Goldman 55:16 Yes, it's just launching in stores. So here in the Mid Atlantic, it's going to be in Whole Foods and moms in a selected giant stores and out west. We're launching an r1 next month, as well as PCC and huckleberries. So a lot of the West Coast and wherever you don't see it, ask for. kevin edwards 55:34 Exactly I will definitely get it down to San Diego set. Appreciate your time coming on the podcast, folks this episode be a part of the movement. Listen to this episode again. Share it with people follow us on the crowdcast or on our all of our channels with this episode will be released on this coming Wednesday. That's it for me, Seth, thanks for joining us. Always keep it real. And thank you good people for hanging on to this episode of the real leaders podcast with Seth Goldman. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. The folks who got a little glimpse little taste of what it's like to be a part of a crowd cast live interview for the religious podcasts and I want you to be a part of the next one. All you got to do is go online to real dash leaders comm slash podcast and RSVP for an upcoming interview with another real leader. Also if you could if you have time today, please leave me a review. Let us know what you think how we can improve the show and who you'd like to see next. That's it for me. Thanks for being a real leader and stay tuned for the next episode. Transcribed by https://otter.ai