Chester Elton  0:01  
communication has to go way up. And gratitude has to go way up. Communication because if you have a gap in communication if there's silence, you know what that silence you know what that gap gets filled with? rumor, innuendo and fear. None of those are productive if I'm engaging with you, and we're in constant communication, and now because I don't mean, you know, five hours a day, every day, it's I'm checking in with you a couple times a week. How are you doing today? How can I help? What do you think? That's, that's been the shift and the good leaders have made that pivot and get it. And those leaders there, say, hey, look, it's a nice to have not a must have. They miss it. And they start to lose people's motivation, engagement, and more than anything, start to lose their trust. 

kevin edwards  0:48  
You are listening to the religious podcast where leaders keep it real. I'm your host, Kevin Edwards. And those wise words come from real leaders. Top 50 keynote speaker, best selling author and the co founder of culture works, Chester Elton, who claims that good leaders get gratitude. And on today's episode, Elton shares prolific examples of business leaders who credit culture change for their resilience, how work balance and work harmony differ in the common ingredients for an engaged workforce. So without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, please give it up for the real Chester Elton. Enjoy. Okay, there we go. Take a deep breath. There we go. going live in 543. still loading three, along Three, two, and one and welcome, everyone to this episode of the real leaders podcast. I'm your host, Kevin Edwards, here today to talk about culture and leadership is number one leadership best selling author and the apostle of appreciation is Mr. Chester Elton Chester, thanks for being with us today.

Chester Elton  2:08  
Delighted to be on the show. Thanks for asking. 

kevin edwards  2:11  
Of course, of course. So the apostle of appreciation. How does one get that nickname and what got you interested into leadership?

Chester Elton  2:19  
Well, you've got to know royalty in England. There's a whole process. 

kevin edwards  2:23  
Yeah, that's that's what I hear. 

Chester Elton  2:25  
I'm kidding. So Adrian goseck is my co author. And years ago, we wrote a book called The Carrot Principle. That's why orange is our favorite color. And carrot is our mascot.

kevin edwards  2:34  
Love it. 

Chester Elton  2:35  
And the Toronto Globe and Mail, which is Canada's largest newspaper. And it was dear to us because he and I both grew up in Canada. As they reviewed the book, they said goseck and Elton are the apostles of appreciation, and we liked it so much. We kept it in fact, you'll get a kick out of this. Over the years, we've picked up other nicknames, like we work for DHL in Bonn, Germany, they call this the deacons of danke schoen. The ministers of motivation, the high priests of praise, even the Dalai Lama's of workplace traumas which that was very clear. But the one that stuck was the apostles of appreciation. So that's why we go with it. 

kevin edwards  3:11  
You know what they say that you can't use the nickname The nickname chooses you.

Chester Elton  3:14  
Exactly just ask The Rock.

kevin edwards  3:16  
That's right. That's right. So appreciation, why is appreciation so Portland, important in today's leadership culture.

Chester Elton  3:24  
You know, it's it's really interesting, and I and I love your take on on real leaders, you know, for for 20 years, Adrian and I have studied culture. And of course, you can't study culture without studying leaders, teams, and so on. And we've got a database of over a million engagement surveys 80,000 of our own motivators assessments that we apply. And I will tell you that every great leader, every great culture we ever studied, there was always this thread of appreciation and gratitude. You know, leaders were appreciative of the people that work with them for them, they, they were grateful for their customers, they gave back to their communities. There was a certain humility there and, and a sense of gratitude that really made that culture work, attracted good people, kept good people and produce tremendous results. In fact, the, our latest book, which is Leading with Gratitude, is is kind of the carrot principle taken to the next level. Carrot principle was a lot about the ceremony, the symbols and so on, which are really important. Gratitude is that emotional connection to work. And so the longer we've been doing this, the more evident it was to us that if you want to be a truly extraordinary leader, and you want to build a culture where people feel safe to innovate, and work hard and bring their best selves to work every day, you have to know how to lead with gratitude. 

kevin edwards  4:44  
How does one practice gratitude?

Chester Elton  4:48  
Every day, just a little bit every day, you know, as we did our research and we delve into all the numbers, and it was really interesting that two words really popped out to me that you have to be intentional about leading with gratitude and you have to be disciplined. So we said, Look, there's the eight best practices on how to lead with gratitude, and there's seeing and then expressing. So one of the things that and we're both executive coaches as well. So as we coach executives, one of the key areas in leading with gratitude is developing an attitude of assuming positive intent about your people. Now, often as leaders, we think if we lead by fear, we're gonna get those Quick Hits, and you can get short term results, leading with fear, you really want long term results, you need to believe that people come to work every day to do a good job. And in trying to do that Good job, they're gonna make mistakes. And you know what, that's okay, we can fix the mistake, we can move on, assuming that positive intent goes a long way to creating a culture of gratitude. And then when people really do you know, perform and give their best effort or dealt with difficult situations, how do you express that in a way that's meaningful? Does that make sense?

kevin edwards  6:05  
Yeah, absolutely. So let's take an example then. So before COVID hit, you know, let's just say a lot of our businesses are doing very well, we can say we're gonna practice gratitude, and we're gonna be very appreciative for everything that happens to us when something like that happens, what are some examples of stick out to you that maybe some leaders had that did where gratitude and appreciation really came through for their organization?

Chester Elton  6:30  
Well, you know, particularly with COVID, you know, all of a sudden, you had all these people working from home. And the dynamic was so different, right? Maybe they're homeschooling their kids, or they're taking care of an aged parent who's at risk, or, or whatever. So now, the whole dynamic of, I've got the commute to work to kind of figure things out, way out my day, I've got my commute, coming back to maybe decompress. I can pull people into my office quickly, we can call a quick meeting and gather people. All that all that's gone away. And now I'm at home, I'm disconnected from my work, the really good leaders said, You know what, I've got to make sure I'm touching base with my people on a regular basis. So instead of just maybe, look, I was out for coffee, and I got an extra one for you, or whatever, right? Or, hey, we're gonna wrap up a little early, let's all go to the bar for you know, for a quick hit. They made sure that they were touching base with their people. And maybe as a group, you know, on on a video chat is more important than one on one. And they're asking really simple questions. How are you doing today? Because today could be a lot different than yesterday, right? Or the kids at home, right? How can I help? And listen? And then one of the questions that I really like is, Hey, what do you think? Like, what do you think about what we're doing? And what that does? And how do you say, Well, when I think of gratitude, I think of stuff? Well, yeah, that can be stuff. One of the best ways you can express gratitude to people is give them your time. And listen to their voice, and get them to participate. Because now I'm working from home, the worst thing that can happen to me is nobody's talking to me. Nobody's grateful for the hard work that I'm doing with all these distractions, I'm forgotten. And so we say look, particularly the in COVID communication has to go way up. And gratitude has to go way up. Communication because if you have like a gap in communication, if there's silence, you know, what that silence, you know, what that gap gets filled with? rumor, innuendo and fear. None of those are productive, if I'm engaging with you, and we're in constant communication, and now by constant I don't mean, you know, five hours a day, every day, it's I'm checking in with you a couple times a week. How are you doing today? How can I help? What do you think? That's, that's been the shift and the good leaders have made that pivot and get it. And those leaders who say, hey, look, it's a nice to have not a must have, they miss it. And they start to lose people's motivation, engagement and more than anything, start to lose their trust.

kevin edwards  9:05  
So in terms of engagement and communication, with Covid now working virtually what are some effective tools that you've seen from leaders who are now trying to engage their their employees much better through this crisis? virtually?

Chester Elton  9:22  
You know, it's gonna sound really old school because you know it well, let's go video chat. Well, I guess what I thought enough video chats today. Right? Everybody's getting a little zoomed out, as they say, ah, old school. You know what a handwritten note goes a long way. You take the time you write it down, you put a stamp on it. Let's face it, your mail is not that interesting these days. Whatever you get, it's like catalogs and maybe you still get some bills. A thoughtful handwritten note that you've taken the time shows up. It's always timely. Because I take the time to read it when I'm not busy. I think Amazon is a great Friend, for a lot of managers, I love random acts of kindness. I know your people well enough that, hey, if they've got some kids at homes and stuff, when you put together a little treat basket, or you know, maybe they're big movie buffs or something, you send them a little, you know, a little online, Netflix, whatever it is, so they can watch some movies. I mean, know your people well enough that you can make that random act of kindness, or that little expression of gratitude really meaningful. And, and I wans to illustrate it by the story we used in the book. So an Adrian I first started to work together, we worked for a bigger company. And we'd written our first book on recognition, Managing with Carrots, great title, right? So I said that our CEO, he said, Now I grew up in sales, I said, Hey, we got to figure out a way to recognize Adrian. So at the big annual sales meeting here, let's, you know, people come from all over the country. Let's highlight Adrian, and let's present him with a watch. And men and black was the movie and so we got this cool deal that delta watch was very cool, Hamilton. I didn't understand what Adrian's key motivators for me, Adrian. And I said, well, by the way, let's get them watch, because I notice he doesn't wear one. So he clearly needs one. Right? Clearly, his key motivators were family. Interesting work. Leave me alone. You know, and the reason he doesn't wear watches because he hates watches, right. So what I had done is I projected what I love to do I love to go to events. I love meeting new people. I love watches, right? So it was really interesting that he got this beautiful watch in front of a bunch of people he didn't know didn't care to know, in an evening that he'd rather be home with his family. And so what I'm saying is, if you want a mint condition, men and black Hamilton watch Adrian's got it, right. So again, you know, these little things, do you know your people well enough that you know how to express that gratitude in a way that's meaningful, handwritten notes, little packages in the mail. I love the team leaders that they find out that one of the things their team used to like to do is go out for pizza. So this is a great leader. And when you know what she did, she sent a pizza to everybody's house Friday night. She said, by the way, Friday with your family dinners on me, it'll be a surprise, wait for the doorbell to ring. didn't cost a lot of money. And yet really, you think those people remember it? guaranteed it. Absolutely.

kevin edwards  12:21  
So Chester, when you're doing this research, what did you seek out to find? What questions were you asking? And what were some of the revelations that you found from all these results?

Chester Elton  12:32  
So great question. So we asked leaders, we said, Look, do you think on average, you were above average? In expressions of appreciation, gratitude? Almost 70% said, Absolutely. I love doing stuff for my people, and they love me. Right? Then we ask their direct reports the same question only 23%. Agreed. So we call that the gratitude gap, the gap. And we looked at engagement surveys. Almost always I feel appreciated for my work was near the bottom. So we took that we said, okay, let's take a look at some extraordinary leaders that we know, whose organizations have produced ridiculous results. And let's find out let's spend some time with this interview. And let's see what it is that makes their organization so extraordinary. So one of them was Garry Ridge at wd 40. Now, Nobody leaves home without a hit right? Like I know you've got a Can of WD 40. So here's your here's your skill testing question. What does wd 40 stand for? 

kevin edwards  13:32  
You know, I've been told it and I'm gonna botch it now. Don't even ask me right now. It's embarrassing.

Chester Elton  13:37  
Water displacement. 40th formula.

kevin edwards  13:40  
the 40 time they've tried it, right? 

Chester Elton  13:42  
Exactly. So Garry Ridge. And by the way, I want to plug his book at tribal cups. It's just if it's 10 bucks on Amazon, it's a brilliant read. 

kevin edwards  13:50  
Tell me about it. I heard he's great.

Chester Elton  13:53  
Oh, yeah, Gary, is a delightful Ozzie living in San Diego. He's the CEO of wd 40. Since he when he took over wd 40, there were about a $215 million company right up basically in the US. Now in 2020, there are $2.5 billion company in their 179 countries. So he talks about tribal culture. So we're wd 40 comes in into play is in their culture, understand this. There are no mistakes. There are only learning moments. So when you want to innovate and create new products, and because of that, you're gonna make mistakes. I mean, that's baked into innovation, right? You're gonna make mistakes. If you don't feel safe at work, and you make a mistake, you hide it. If you're in a healthy culture, like wd 40 you make a mistake. You bring everybody in and say, by the way, this is my mistake, how do we fix it? And that tribal culture he says, you know, teammates didn't work for me associates, you know, employees--a tribe is different a tribe, you hunt together, you eat together. you defend each other, and you celebrate together. Isn't that brilliant? 

kevin edwards  15:05  
I love that. I love that now, Wd 49. I believe my one of my best friends is an accountant for them. So he's the one that told me about that the 40th time they did that. And now they have this IP, right? So they'll never be copied. There'll be in business now. But a lot, we just had a someone that worked for Kodak, on the on the show just an hour ago, and their Kodak moment happened to be when, you know, digital took them over. And they were resting on their laurels. How does a company that has prior success, not rest on their laurels, and continue to keep up with the time in order to be relevant, whether it's their digital transformation? Or just with the, you know, social social terms and social norms?

Chester Elton  15:47  
Yes, see, that's where culture is so important that you listen to your people. Right? Because as you know, who invented the digital camera?

kevin edwards  15:57  
Kodak, I didn't. Yeah,

Chester Elton  16:00  
they had their skunkworks group. And they said, By the way, this is absolutely the future. And they said, Yeah, but people are gonna want to, you know, have real film and it's gonna be higher quality, and they're gonna want to go and take it to a drugstore. And they're gonna want to wait a week before they get it or pay a little extra and get it now, you know, come on. I mean, can you ever imagine going back to, I'm going to shoot a bunch of pictures and not gonna know what they look like, take a roll, give it to a guy get 24 pictures back, and maybe keep three right? Now, you know, we can shoot 60 photos and delete the 58. We don't like. The point is, is they had gotten caught up in. We've always done it this way. There's no room for innovation. And even though they came up with these really cool products. IBM invent invented the mouse didn't know what to do with it. Microsoft grabbed it, you know? So you've got to have a culture where you ask for and solicit input. And that's that's one of the seeing attributes in our book. Are you in tune? Are you walking in your people shoes? You know? Are you really understanding what it is that goes into the company? See, the great thing about Gary is is he said, Look, we need to grow. What would it take to get into Thailand? What would it take to get into India? Let's solve this problem together. There are no mistakes, there are only learning moments. And they talk about their company as being we're not a lubricant company. We're a company that creates memories, lasting memories for people. Now you might say, look, it's a lubricant. Who you kidding. Let me tell you a quick story. And by the way, a great blog on LinkedIn that Gary put up lessons I've learned during COVID is really, really brilliant read. And he said, one of the guys that's working for me works for wd 40 COVID. He's got a little more time on his hands. You know, the commute, wanted to get back into cycling. So he goes to the garage, he dusts off his bike, and he's got to do some maintenance. So he grabs his young daughter, he says, Come on, let's go down to the hardware store. And let's get a can of multi purpose, Wd 40. You know, for them for the bicycle chain. So she's like, yeah, okay, dad. So they're running there, right? So he comes back and they get the bike set up. And he says, so do you know what we're doing here, honey? She said, Yeah, we're greasing your bicycle chain? He said, No, no, we're creating a lasting memory. And here's how we're going to do it takes the cloth sprays, the WD 40 on the cloth. It's a smell that has got a very distinctive smell, as you know, smell that. We're going to clean this chain. And it's time for you and me just to spend some time together. Daddy daughter time. And you know what? Every time you smell that, you're going to remember this moment. It's not a lubricant anymore, is it?

It's not, it's not. But that's also the same thing that Kodak tried the restaurant was a Kodak moment. We create moments. We're not digital company they had beef with the digital company. Now, Kodak also a very large organization. He was saying we had a lot of overhead. They invested $5 billion into chemicals for their development. So when the digital transformation came, they had all this overhead. They they had a lot of naysayers. They had a lot of people that said we're not changing. That's to me culture, but to him. He said it was more just the industry is changing. Well, how do you see that? And what are some things that maybe some differences from leading with a large corporation versus a small business?

Well, a $250 million company isn't that small and certainly 2.5 billion is marketable. The reason I was shaking your head is I want to I want to share with you a phrase that my father made me memorize when I was a kid. This is this is advice from the grave from john Dalton Elton. He said, You know what chess excuses, even when valid are never impressive. So yeah, listen, in hindsight Kodak could make all the excuses $5 billion in chemicals and new research facility for better paper, you know, competing with Fujian Yeah, I get it. Let me give you an example of the Ford Motor Company. So Alan Malone, he was one of the guys we get to interview now in the last recession. Ford General Motors and Chrysler, you remember their stock went to $1. They had to go to DC right to Washington to plead for money. Now, General Motors and Chrysler took the money Ford did not bill Ford calls up LML Ali, who's at Boeing at the time, and save Boeing, you know, from from their catastrophic failures and said, Come on up to four, we're gonna turn this thing around. Alan takes the job. big company, lots of overhead at the time, all kinds of brands you might remember they own Jaguar, Saab, Volvo, Range Rover, all these different brands. He comes in, he says, look, you don't you don't have a product problem. You got a culture problem. He had a people problem. Now, a lot of people say yeah, lead with gratitude, nice to have soft skill. It's an absolute hard skill, and it's an absolute must have. Here's Elon law, he shows up loafers. sportcoat. No tie all these, you know, automotive executive now, I lived in Detroit for a while he slick back here. 1000. You know, $2,000 suits that cufflinks the whole bit. He comes in and starts hugging everybody. And he says, You know what? It's all about your people. You gotta love them up. If he's from India, you gotta love them up. Right? culture issue. He said, one of the guys comes up to me literally and says, Alan, I know you're in airplanes. These are cars. I don't know if you know this, but 40,000 parts coming to any car. And if they don't work, cart and run, it looks and smells he goes. You know, I was the design engineer on the 777 Boeing jet. It has for 4 million parts. Right? And by the way, it flies. Right. Exactly. Engineering part isn't gonna be a problem. No excuses, the culture the truck. So all this overhead, you know what they did? They sold off all those brands, they sold them off. They said, Look, if we're going to survive, we got to place a bet. And we're going to place our bet on the oval. And it's Ford. He was the guy that said, Look, the F 150 Best Selling truck in the world. He's the one that said, you know, we're gonna go to an aluminum frame. And he re engineered everything. They they took all that cash, they placed their bet. And they said, Look, we got to trust each other. We got to work through the problems. This is who we are. We are Ford in a build great cars that people want with technology at a price. And on and on. So they can see America, right? That was the old Ford slogan from from years ago from Henry Ford. And they did it. And he increased their stock by 1,800%. Now when your stocks at $1, that's not too hard to do. The fact is, is he turned it around, they became profitable again. And yet after he left and very quickly slipped back into their own little habit.

kevin edwards  23:22  
It seems like he also took ownership, you know, and by not accepting the money took accountability. Is that something you teach as well and how important is ownership in organization?

Chester Elton  23:31  
accountability is key. Again, hard skill must have. Nobody is more demanding than Elena lolly. He holds his people accountable. Like you can't believe you know, big charts, red, yellow, green, and so on. And yet he says, if in a crisis, when you're going through hardships, if you withhold gratitude, you're shooting yourself in the foot. He had this philosophy of look for small wins, celebrate those small wins, get momentum. One of the things he did he did right from the get go. He reinvigorated the taris car. And so they re engineered it. They relaunched it. They're at the big Auto Show in Detroit, right. He's the new CEO. spotlights are on he comes out. There's the Ford Taurus, gleaming You know, every every inch has been polished. He says, going to show you the new Ford tourist. Isn't it beautiful? Look at that shine. Who shined up that car. Three maintenance guys are off to the side. Everything is Come on out. Come on out. The maintenance guys. He says give him a big round of applause. That car doesn't look that good without these three guys here. What kind of message do you think that sends? Everybody matters, right? We buddy matters every day. And when you get everybody buying in and you celebrate those small wins along the way and you build that momentum, you can do remarkable things. accountability and gratitude go hand in hand.

kevin edwards  24:55  
Do you think that's what attracts employees To a company like that in the first place over its competitors. 

Chester Elton  25:03  
Yep. I mean, literally no doubt about it. Why wouldn't you want to go to a place where you're valued and appreciated and celebrated, where when you make a mistake, you're still safe. And you can solve that problem, then move on. who bears Yoli, who we interviewed for the book took BestBuy from a billion dollar deficit to a billion dollar surplus. I said, How did you do it? He said, we made work meaningful. I may be naive. I just assume people come to work wanting to do a good job. And we celebrate them.

kevin edwards  25:33  
So are we investing in our employees as much as we should be? And what do you see in the field today in terms of most leaders, and where the money is directed to in terms of, let's say, talent acquisition, employee engagement,

Chester Elton  25:48  
things like this? You know, the short answer is no, no, we're not. And let me tell you why that is. folly. Yeah. real real case that you ever been to a Texas Roadhouse restaurant?

kevin edwards  25:59  
No, I haven't. I've heard the story about them, though.

Chester Elton  26:03  
They're amazing. You go in a party. It's peanuts on the floor. It's ice cold beer. And Margarita is it's handcut steaks and fresh baked rolls, right? You can smell it as you're walking. It is more fun than you should be allowed. So almost 80,000 employees 600 restaurants, and COVID hits their takeaway business about 7%. He's gonna shutter all of them. And now they got to go to 100% curbside. Can you imagine? You know what the first thing he said was? nobody's getting laid off. The longest thing CEO gave up his $1.3 million salary. Got all his banks all in order, said even if you can't come to work, we're gonna pay you. Because if you work at Texas Roadhouse, you're a roadie. And that means something. And we're gonna buy all the masks and gloves and goggles. We're going to protect you. And together we're going to figure this out. In four weeks. They were profitable. in week five and six, they were hiring people. Do you know that almost 8 million. 8 million workers in the restaurant industry lost their jobs within three to four weeks when COVID attaches to you. Not one of them work for Texas Roadhouse, and here's why. he invests in his people. They love them. They love kin, they love the brand, they would not let their communities down. The order of importance is roadies, customers, community, roadies, customers community, take care of your roadies, lonely, say carrier customers. And because we're doing well, we can take care of our community. They come up with some bizarre ideas. They've got all these hand cut steaks, you might remember there was a time when there was kind of a meat shortage. And he said, You know, one of his guys in North Carolina said, You know what, let's do a farmers market on the weekend. We'll sell them our beautiful hand cut steaks, curbed the grill. There were people that waited in line for four hours to buy those things. It wasn't just the best one day, you know, sales for that store. It was the it was the best one day sales number in the entire history of Texas Roadhouse. And it was a guy that was thinking outside the box now, did all their ideas work. No, it's okay. Ken says when things get tough, I call my crazies become like crazy. 

kevin edwards  28:20  
So did he call you? 

Chester Elton  28:21  
Yeah, we were documenting all this Adrian and I it was it was so much fun. And you know what they did? They've got this. They call it the rally alley, is the beginning of every day they get everybody they said okay, we're Texas Roadhouse, handcut steaks, fresh baked bread, but heaped up, you know, we get we get these family packs, we've got it, we're gonna feed our community, we're gonna keep things running, and we're not gonna let it get to us. Hey, and they call out jack. And they call out Susan, and they call up maleek. And wherever they're doing, and they hit the curb run, and at the end of the day to do this, they do the same thing. I have never seen a company that celebrates more than Texas Roadhouse. And they are without question, the gold standard in the restaurant industry. 

kevin edwards  29:02  
Why do you think there is such a knee jerk reaction among the business community to cut in assume that cutting employees is going to lead the growth?

Chester Elton  29:14  
It's the first thing they do. Right? Oh, times your hard? Well, because you that's the easiest thing to do, right? It's headcount is headcount, you know, well, let's close half our stores, lay off half of our people and regroup. Yeah, let you know, short term. We'll bring you back when we can. Right. So I think it starts way back, right. Kant had been doing this for 20 years. You know, he built that trust over 20 years, he made sure that they were in a financial situation so that when hard times hit, because they always do that they would be in a position to survive. You know, when money is cheap, and everybody's borrowing and expanding. You Yeah, short term that's great. Do you have the reserves? Because if you don't what you're telling people is you really don't care about your employees. It didn't put away for hard times. And the companies that do, and Texas Roadhouse is one and there are many examples. Texas Roadhouse is one. You can't you think they're coming back? Do you think they're working hard? Do you think they're they're making that experience that takes us rodez world class, their motto was legendary food legendary service. That's it. It's still fun. Now it's a party in the parking lot. Right.

kevin edwards  30:31  
Exactly, exactly. So I think you touched on another point, and you were talking about the community like Texas Roadhouse is invest into the community. They are a part of the community now. And that's why people are going back this long term thinking, this stakeholder approach versus shareholder approach. Is this something that you see business owners adopting in today's day and age, and maybe a few examples that could help our audience out? To understand why this is important during a time like a recession?

Chester Elton  30:59  
Yeah, well, listen, people, even with unemployment, where it is people have options, good people always have options. And they're gonna go where they're gonna feel valued, that they can grow and develop. You know, it's really interesting. We were at a conference, this is some years ago now. And they were asking their employees, what do you expect of your manager? And one of those planning answers, and I think it's more true now than ever, is they said, I don't want to manager, that just makes me a more efficient worker, or a better worker, I want a manager that makes me a better person. So this long term strategy says, Look, I'm going to invest in you and there's no more nine to five, everybody's got a smartphone, it's all you know, 24 seven, right? So I'm going to invest in you as a person, I'm going to take care of you, I'm going to put you in a position where you can grow and develop. And by investing in you and caring about you, How can I not care about the organization and my immediate supervisor? And does that ripple to the customer every time? And yes, there still are a lot of companies that don't get it, they're very transactional. And people work there and if that's your nature, and that's what motivates you that really work is working life is life and never the twain shall meet, and I don't have to be passionate about my work. I just need to make sure my check clears. But you'll never be world class. I don't think you'll ever build you know, a monument that this is how you do it. And you can maybe get by fine. You want to build something special. You want to build it for the long term. Invest in your people know your people care about your people put aside money for hard times.

kevin edwards  32:37  
Chester whether jobs I got coming out college was with Wyndham hotels and turned it down but I was really interested in Wyndham. They are an industry that has just been demolished by Covid. There's no travel anymore. Not to say they didn't care about me as a person. I thought they're great people and they're speak with me on the phones, and they took me out to dinner, wine and dine me things like that. But is that an excuse? Now? Would you say that's an excuse? How do you speak with an employee that, you know, you're not going to be able to have the capital or the funds to support them anymore? What type of conversation would a leader have with an employee that they unfortunately do actually have to cut? Or do you say no, you don't have to cut them at all.

Chester Elton  33:21  
Well, here's here's the point. I mean, there are devastating circumstances right. I'll relate to you a wonderful story about Doria cameras on Doria runs that call centers for American Express down in Florida. And there was some severe cutbacks one year. Here's the point you said, How do you tell a manager? How does that conversation go? Well, first have the conversation. So often there is no conversation. You get escorted out the building or, you know, if you're working government, you might get tweeted that you've no longer have a job, right? So the point is, have the conversation be open and honest. You know, Doria tells the story. She said, you know, we've let three people go. And it was it was heartbreaking for me. We tried to look for other areas of the organization. It just didn't work. These were the cutbacks. And instead, I sat down with every one of them. And I said look, it breaks my heart to let you go, here's the situation. We tried everything we could now what good organizations do as well as they say, here's what we're going to do for you to help you transition. You know, we're going to give you an excellent recommendation. We've got some services on how to put your you know your CV together. Other areas that we think you know, or other companies that we think are are hiring and you know where you might fit. So it wasn't look, not my fault. Cut backs. Would love to keep you just can't. Cool, right? No. And the thing that was wonderful about that is as hard as that was for Doria to do and it was everyone everywhere. In this case it was it was only three people but this is in every one of the cases they thanked her they said you know what? We'd love you as a leader. If other openings come up, we'd love To come back, I completely understand. Thank you for the experience I've had with you. And thank you for taking the time, as the head of the organization to come down here to my cubicle, and spend some time with me and thank me for my service. There's letting people go in there's letting people go, right? There's a great way to do it, there's a wrong way. I've got friends that work in New York, in the financial industry. Once your gun literally an armed security person comes in and watches you take whatever it is out of your desk, your passwords are gone, your laptop was, in the end, they escort you out of the building. And they say, Well, yeah, because you said, Well, you know what that means? You don't trust them. But obviously, they didn't trust you. And by the way, knowing that that was it, that's what's gonna happen. You don't think you know you're leaving five or six days before you're leaving, you don't think you've already taken everything you need? Come on.

kevin edwards  35:51  
Right? Right. Now, if you're an employer, looking for someone that's going to fit your organization, I don't think there's a company out there that has had a perfect hire rate, where you just know that this person each time is going to be the best employee ever. What is some questions or some strategies that you've seen be effective in terms of hiring the right people? What are you looking for?

Chester Elton  36:15  
Yeah, I think you, you have to look for a cultural fit, you've got to make sure that their values match your values. One of the ways to do that, and I think a great best practice is not just multiple interviews, which I think are good, multiple interviews with people on the team, where they're going to work. Do they fit with the team, you know, Adrian, and I had an experience where we hired a very talented guy, I mean, lights out great trainer and, and speaker delightful, wasn't a good fit for the team. It got to the point where it was really bad. I mean, he hated the team, and the team hated him. You know, it was reciprocal. And it took us a long time to extricate that and to make it right. And ultimately, we had to let him go. And we get caught up with with remarkable talent, either so talent will manage around, no, take the time, make sure you've got a good fit, have them interview with the team, because a lot of times the team will pick up on things that you don't. And you know, initially when you make a bad hire, the team knows before you. Initially they'll blame the the hire, the longer it goes on that transfers to you. Because you can fix it. And you haven't. And so hiring is really it's it's I think it's a lot more art than science. There are things you can do let the team interview. We have a wonderful motivators assessment that a lot of companies use. Tell me what your top motivators are, we'll match them up with the motivators on our team. Just a simple test. You know, if you've taken Myers Briggs or Strength Finders, takes you 20, 25 minutes, spits out your top motivators at work. In fact, you wanna have some fun. 

kevin edwards  37:53  
Yeah, let's do it.

Chester Elton  37:55  
If you want to take our motivators assessment, which we sell for 40 bucks all day long, if you email Christie at the culture works dot com, and tell him Chester sent you. she'll send you a free motivators code. And it really is interesting, because not only is it important to know what the motivators are in your team, it's important for you to know what your motivators are. Are you recognizing people in the right way? Are you putting them in a position where not only may they be good at it, they're also passionate about it. And when you start making those connections, I've got cultural fit. I've got a motivation fit. I've got a passion fit, your odds of hiring the right person go up? Are you going to be perfect? Nobody's perfect. Are your odds better? Yeah, your odds are better.

kevin edwards  38:38  
So Chester motivation is very important to you and this meaningful work concept. It's all about the people. Why is this so meaningful to you? What got you involved?

Chester Elton  38:49  
Well, you know, like anybody that the longer you live, you've had jobs that were phenomenal. And you've had jobs that, you know, it was hard to pry yourself out of bed. And I I've had both right. And when you're miserable, you're miserable. And one of the data points in our research that I love to cite is when you're happy and motivated and engaged at work, this was a study done out of university of California, you're more you're 150%, more likely to be happy, motivated, engaged in your personal life. I mean, it makes sense, right? We spend so much time at work, that if we come from a miserable situation, we're going to bring that misery home with us that come from a great and engaging experience. I'm going to bring that home with me too. So one of the reasons I'm so passionate about it is that leading with gratitude and understanding motivators and putting people in a place where they can succeed and feel good about themselves, where they feel safe and they feel listened to. It's not just good for the company, it's good for their families, it's good for their communities. The ripple effect is phenomenal. And I've been in the situation where I came home from work and I was miserable and I made my wife miserable and like yeah I had my wife, I was in a situation one time, we'd go for walks, and I'd start to rant and she'd say, Okay, stop. Let me make this easy for you. You're leaving. Now, I don't know what we're doing. I'm telling you, we're not doing this anymore. Because I want my husband back. Figure it out, you're quitting. Got it? Okay. This love your station, it's always very helpful.

kevin edwards  40:28  
So just how do you find balance? in a position like this? How important is balanced to you, when you come back home? Do you detach? What are some ways that you're able to do things outside of work to improve your on work performance?

Chester Elton  40:44  
You know, I think balance is is a bad word. I don't think Well, I do and because, you know, you try to say, well, I've got work like balance. Well, I think you know, there were times when your life is out of balance. You know, you got kids Your life is out of balance. You get a promotion, you know, I huge project, your life is out of balance. I think what you want to strive for is work life harmony. And that, that when you can harmonize your personal life and your business life, that's where it gets really good. Now, I'm so glad you brought it up, because the last part of the book is live a grateful life. And the leaders that we interviewed with is Alan Malala, or Ken Chanel who had just left American Express or Indra Nooyi, who's the Past, Present CEO of Pepsi and some of these remarkable leaders, not only did they lead at work with gratitude, they all lead with gratitude in their personal lives. It was it was ridiculously affirming. Right. So what we did, what we did is we created a baker's dozen. And what that is, is 13 ways for you to live a grateful life at home. And one of them is a very simple practice, although it's hard to do is when you walk through the door, or you finish your commute, and your family shows up, be excited to see him. Like just be excited to see him. Hey, dad's home, mom's home. Yeah, give me some space. There it is. Yeah. How are you doing? You know, happy to see him. My wife and I have a fun little practice. At the end of every day, we say what are your three? What are three things you're grateful for? It's just a lovely way to end the day. And maybe it was just a good meal. Maybe it was caught up with an old friend? Because the weather was particularly nice today. Did you see the flowers bloom in the garden? Right? Wasn't that a nice walk that we took? I found some time to just sit and think, you know, it's such a nice way to end the day. And you know, when our kids around, we do with their kids and say what are your three we go around the room and everybody laughs? A dear friend of ours does a best practice at the dinner table with his kids. He says, you know, we would always ask him, how was school? Fine. What did you learn? Nothing. Can we change it up? He said Got to answer three questions. What's the best party today? Who you're grateful for? It's not at the table? And who are you grateful for who's at the table who hasn't been thanked yet? That great said changed everything you get to talk about something really fun in your day, got to talk about one of your friends. And then you got to show appreciation for so many in your family. simple little practices like that. really do help you stay engaged at home so you don't leave your best self at home. Or you don't leave your best self at work. You know, you find that harmony of you can take what's good at work and bring it home and take what's good at home and take it to work that resonate with you.

kevin edwards  43:41  
Yeah, absolutely. It does. And also, I just want to throw this question out there. For some people, it may not. A lot of people say Easy for you to say, Chester, now you've got a good life. You'd haven't had to deal with COVID in a way with I haven't had to deal with it. What would you say to those people who are out there? So it's, you know, I practice gratitude for a couple weeks and then it goes away because life happens? How do you consistently sustained something like that? So every day you just are appreciative?

Chester Elton  44:12  
Yeah, I think you've got to set up triggers. You've got to set up little reminders. At the end of the day, what are i three? I've got a question posted on my wall, am I being the best person I want to be right now. You know, set up little triggers. We had a manager that used to put 10 pennies in his pocket. And he keep track he says My goal was 10 random acts of kindness every day with my people. And the way to keep track is move a penny from his left pocket to his right puck. Set up little triggers. Set a goal. I'm gonna write a handwritten note every day. Just one you know and hold yourself accountable. But make a little spreadsheet. I mean, if you're reading them, green, I did great yellow. I'm working on it, red I blew it. And that's okay. And then you take a deep breath, forgive yourself, move on.

kevin edwards  44:58  
Chester, this is the kind of big question But it pertains to this gratitude and this appreciation this and maybe kind of why you like doing what you do. Do you think business has a purpose? Your career has a purpose? And if you do, how do you identify someone?

Chester Elton  45:15  
Yeah, listen, purpose driven, business purpose rated, people are always happier people. Because it's something bigger than themselves. You know, people get in these bad places. And they that woe is me, and look, what's happened to me and covid wasn't my fault. And that wasn't my responsibility. And yet, I'm paying the price. You know what, get out of yourself, go serve, go do something nice for somebody else. You know, we always think about gratitude as well how great it is for the recipient. And guess what, when you give you feel great about yourself, it's the old adage your parents taught you when you're five years old, better to give than receive, because when you give, you always receive, so set up, set up those triggers, find your purpose. I mean, that is a big question. Sit back and say what's really important to me, a great exercise if you really want to know what's important to you. Keep track of where you spend your time today. Oh, family's really important to me. Really, you know, you spent three hours in Netflix and you spent 10 minutes with your kids, right? If I were to look at your day, I'd say that Netflix is a lot more important to you than your kids, you know. So find that balance. I've known guys that have said, Look, I will not accept a job outside of Chicago. My family's here, my parents are here, they're getting older me to take care of them. Even if it's a tremendous opportunity, I'm not moving to LA I'm not moving to New York, Chica, because they're the family value is so strong, is it I would rather make less money and have more time for my family. You know, it's really interesting. We had Marshall Goldsmith write the foreword to the book. They said, you know, in my experience, whether it's a janitor or a billionaire, the one thing we all have in common is this one thing. We all want to be happy. And nothing brings happiness into your life more than expressions of gratitude. Lead deeply with gratitude at work. And at home. It creates this essence of we all matter. And we're all going to have tough days. And we're all going to need somebody to pick us up. You know, my my father again, you know, advice from the grave. The thing I loved about my dad is he treated everybody the same. Whether they were bagging groceries, parking cars, or captains of industry, because to my dad, everybody mattered.

And I'll tell you a quick story. I've never forgotten never forgotten this. So I grew up in Vancouver, British Columbia, one of the most beautiful cities on Earth. 

kevin edwards  47:37  
Oh yeah. I used to go to Whistler all the time.

Chester Elton  47:42  
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I lived in West van not too far from Whistler and Grouse Mountain and, you know. Anyway, here's the deal. We would get up Saturday mornings, we'd go play tennis, we'd go to McDonald's, get a Mcmuffin. And then he would often like to go to the army and navy. It just closed the business for 108 years. And we look for bargains, it was one of those discount places. They buy out distressed companies, you get stuff like 10 cents on the dollar. It's kind of in a sketchy area in gas town. So we parked the car. We're walking by pigeon Park, for the homeless people that hang out. We're going across the street. And a homeless lady is coming across the crosswalk with everything she owned in a brown paper sack. And when she got to the curb it split open and it spilled. Now, it wasn't anything you and I'd want to own. It was everything she owned. And you know, I mean, Vancouver's a walk in town right busy. So everybody kind of broke eye contact gave her a wide berth kept moving. And that's what I intended on doing. Everybody did that except for my dad. He immediately stopped, he knelt down. He helped her gather up her stuff. He said something that made her laugh. And that was my dad. And he got us safely in the park. So he comes back to me, I'm like 14, 15 years old, right? And I said, Hey, Dad, you probably shouldn't touch those people. They're not clean. And he said something I'll never forget. He said Chess, you be good, to everybody. everybody's having a tough day. Okay. And you think you think about that as a leader? Right? You'd be good to everybody. everybody's having a tough day. Whether you're doing a zoom call, or you know, you're still having people come on the assembly line or whatever. You don't know what your employees just came from. You don't know if they're, if it's a living hell trying to homeschool, right? But their Internet's not fast enough. They've got an aging parent, that's all of a sudden got a cough and everybody's freaking out. They're having trouble with a kid you don't know. Here's what you do know, the time they spend with you can be the best time of their day. They believe what they do matters. They've made a difference. That purpose, right. And when they made a difference, you notice that you celebrate it, you remember to say thank you, you can do that. 

And I promise you that if you lead with more gratitude, at work and at home, yeah, you're gonna create a great place to work where people want to come work and and be productively. You know, American Express, PepsiCo, right? wd 40. There are case studies and the all the information is there, in leading with gratitude available on Amazon, that's the commercial. But I promise you this, you will live a better life, you'll feel better about the work you do with the people that you work with. It'll ripple into you in your personal life is a ripple in your community. I like literally, there aren't too many guarantees in life, this is a guarantee, you bring more gratitude into your life, attract gratitude attracts gratitude, better way to lead better way to live.

kevin edwards  50:35  
inspiring story in wise words, as well now, and I would hope anyone in a leadership position would understand that as well. If you've ever been in a leadership position, you've you've dealt with people and you've heard stories that are going on at home, and then that starts to be ingrained in you and you start to kind of view the world a bit differently, be grateful for kind of what you have. Now this story is very important to me, not just because the gratitude part, but because it came from your father, multi generational leadership, how important is it to learn from others above wiser than us and younger than us as well? What can we learn from both generations? And how important is it to connect that in your culture?

Chester Elton  51:18  
Are you saying that because you're younger and wiser than I am? I'm saying?

kevin edwards  51:20  
I say wiser, the wiser. That the the Oh worthy?

Chester Elton  51:26  
Yes. There's no question. You are younger, there's no question you are probably wiser. And you've got great hair. I mean, there's there's no new this the trifecta. Here, here's what's really important is yes, surround yourself with good people. Absolutely. My grandma had a saying she said you can't live in a sewer and not end up smelling like one. So you can say, hey, look, I'm a good guy, just because they're bad guys, doesn't work. Surround yourself with positive people. So always surround yourself with people that are smarter than you. Always surround yourself with people that are better than you. You know, I my family were tennis players, we love to play tennis. If you wanted to get to be a better tennis player, you didn't go play with players you could you could be, you wouldn't play with players that were better than you to push yourself. That's why that was a genius. In Allen Malallley. He'd say, look, you, you are not the problem, you have a problem. Let's get everybody figuring out how to solve the problem. wd 40, we're gonna make mistake, what do we learn? You know, it took 40 tries to get that formula. Were there the 39 mistakes? Absolutely not. 39 learning opportunities 39 learning moments. So there's no question that we all have a savior complex. And we'll see somebody around. Well, they're super negative and everything, but I'm the one positive thing in their life, Well, good, if you're gonna have that one negative person and you know, you better have three or five really positive people in your life to negate that. You know, look for good people. Challenge yourself smart, creative, funny, you know, compassionate. And again, that builds a community that's smart, funny, compassionate. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, who doesn't want to be a part of that? Find your tribe and make your tribe amazing.

kevin edwards  53:15  
It seems to be the common theme and all the companies you're alluding to, throughout this podcast now, we talked about gratitude. Obviously, for most of this, I want to fill you in on a story with someone I interviewed. His name's Jay Shetty. He's a monk. And I just got his book. You just guys book right there. I got that. I just got that book in Amazon. yesterday. Yesterday. So you know the story then?

Chester Elton  53:36  
I'm 50 pages into it. Okay, I love this He says I grew up in an Indian family in London. And I had three choices. I could be a doctor, a lawyer or a failure.

kevin edwards  53:46  
That's right. That's right.

Chester Elton  53:48  
And I chose to be a monk. Oh, listen, as spectacular as this book is and it is highly recommend. In fact, on Friday, I have a book club and this is the book in my book club.

kevin edwards  53:58  
I'll be on it. I'll be on if I'm if I'm invited. I'm reading that book. I just started last night just got an Amazon. Now Jason, Jason, great guy. I mean, he's a guy when I was just starting out that I asked him if I could go on interview, he made the time set aside a time and it was a crazy, incredible experience with him. Now, he talked about in that first chapter, as I'm sure you read about the ECG scanners on the brains of monks who meditate for a living, how important is self reflection to you in terms of your gratitude and happiness?

Chester Elton  54:29  
You know, it's everything. I developed a really interesting habit thanks to my friend Marshall Goldsmith. six questions he said you should ask yourself, you know, did I set clear and concise goals, did I I work towards those goals did I tried to be happy or did it? It's did I do my best? Did I do my best to be happy? Did I do my best to build a meaningful relationship did I do my best being engaged? Well, the six questions went to 23. And at the end of every day, you reflect on what did I do you know, did I make my wife feel loved and appreciated. Did I make my son feel loved and appreciated? Did I perform a random act of kindness? Did I go out of my way to build up a stranger? Did I help build up our training business today? Did I help build our speaking business today? You know, those kinds of things? Did they do my best to speak with God today? You know, and so on, and so on and so on. And that accountability and that reflection at the end of the day, of course, it's critical. How do I know if I'm getting better if I don't keep track?

And this idea of just taking a moment, and and I love it with with, with with Jay. I call him Jay, because I have his book. And now we're tight, right? Yeah, exactly. J where he says, You sit down and just meditate, and you bring peace. And it's not about competition. It's not about what I don't have or what someone else has. It's what I can do right now, to make myself a better person. And again, you don't talk about surround yourself with good people. He talks about the positive and the negative. He says, For every negative person in your life, you have to have at least three good people. Right? And that whole idea that let go of stuff, just let go. I don't know if you've got this yet. This is I used this quote the other day. I hope I can find it. And I think it speaks to exactly what you're saying. He said it's the chapter on negativity. He says it's impossible to build one's own happiness on the unhappiness of others. So how can you express joy and happiness, expressions of gratitude, and he talks about that about being in a state of gratitude. It's remarkable. I love that you got the book!

kevin edwards  56:40  
Well, he's, I interviewed him like, literally, when I was just starting out, I think I was in college still. And he just took the time, you know, because he's a really humble person, like he actually is who He says He is, and what he preaches. And we had a meaningful conversation just like this and really inspired me as well. Now, one thing that you mentioned in your story with the, you know, the the lady, the homeless lady who dropped her stuff, you know, when I hear that now, my koban mind goes on, I'm not going to go into that, you know, I fear that people are not going to talk to each other as much or socialize with each other as much or be as friendly as we once were, as social beings because of this disease. Do you fear that society is going to change and become less friendly because of this?

Chester Elton  57:27  
Well, I think fear is the opposite of happiness. And I don't think you can be happy and fearful at the same time. I think if you asked me Sure, I think some people will react that way. I have tremendous faith in in people. We'll figure it out. Yeah, we probably not hugging as much. You know, I lived in Italy for a while, but they're not kissing on both cheeks as much, you know, we'll figure it out, though. We are social animals. And we will figure out a way to gather we'll figure out a way to be meaningful, we'll, we'll figure out our family pods. And we'll get back to hugging and shaking hands and slapping each other on the back, we'll get there eventually. And you know what when it happens, it's gonna be phenomenal. In the meantime, we'll have to do with FaceTime and video chats. And those kinds of things. You know what, though? I believe in the innate goodness in people. I really do. I assume positive intent about people. And you know, as as Jay says, In the monk world, you do that until proven wrong, and even then forgive and move on. You know, if people are really unhappy, and they're nasty, you know, that's, that's, that's unfortunate. Do what you can to help and move on. You don't have to take on all that negativity. You don't have to take on all those problems, do what you can to help and move on. And as far as social interactions, I mean, yeah, I still love my kids. I still love my neighbors. I still love my brothers and sisters. And I still love the random acts of kindness that the guy who bags my groceries and does really well. We'll figure it out. We'll move on. 

kevin edwards  59:02  
We'll figure it out. We're human beings. We use social tools. Right, right. Now, what about innovation, though? How will we innovate? What does the future of work look like to you, Chester?

Chester Elton  59:13  
I think there's gonna be a lot more people working from home on a regular basis. You know, USPTO has been doing this for, you know, 20 years. That's that the United States Patent and Trademark Office. You know, I think 40% if not more of their workforce has been working from home. They require them to come in once a month, because they want that human contact, keep track of them longer if they do in patent law and whatnot, you can do from anywhere. I think companies are figuring out that they don't need 30 floors in a big tower in downtown New York. Right? You can have little pods out in the suburbs. This is I live my town is a commuter town in New York. And houses here are selling like crazy. People are moving out of the city. Because even when it gets back to what we're gonna call normal, you're probably not going in five days a week. Probably not. And you know what? I think that's a good thing. I don't think there's anything wrong with a mom or dad being able to walk their kids to school.

kevin edwards  1:00:08  
I heard something about migration being an indicator for I'm gonna go here like extinction, like climate change, like, you know, uncertainty and unrest. Do you think that's going to play a big factor into businesses, leaders in terms of their decisions for what they're going to make on the future generations?

Chester Elton  1:00:30  
Oh, sure. I mean, I think you've always got to try to see around the corner. You know, I mean, you migrate for a lot of reasons. I mean, I grew up in Canada, you know, Southern California is full of snowbirds. That's Canadians that migrate south because cold there. I mean, you can migrate for a lot of positive reasons, too. I mean, find a new work, work life harmony, that we talk about money. And if the harmony says, look, you only have to come in once a week or twice a month. And I'm getting my work done. And I'm productive, and I'm engaged and everything's moving forward. I've got no problem with that.

kevin edwards  1:01:07  
Chester's man pleasure having you on the show, we talked a lot about gratitude, appreciation, many examples of businesses, they're implying that applying that to their organization or culture, and that's how they're able to sustain and succeed through hard times. Now, that's real to me, Chester we want to hear from you. What is your definition of a real leader?

Chester Elton  1:01:27  
You know, I, my definition of a real leader is is basically Ken Taylor. Somebody that really cares about his people first, cares deeply about his customers next, and then gives back to his community. You know, that humility that's there, where he says, Look, I'm just one guy, I can create, you know, something bigger than myself. And if I do things right, and set that example, it gives permission to everybody else to do the same, to care about their people to care about their customers, and to care about their communities. So to me the definition of a great leader. Look up Ken Taylor. 

kevin edwards  1:02:05  
I love it. Well, I just want to appreciate your time coming on the Real Leaders podcast for Chester Elton. I'm Kevin, I was asking you to go out there. Live with gratitude. Set the example folks and always keep it real. Thanks, Chester. 

Chester Elton  1:02:17  
You got it.

kevin edwards  1:02:17  
And thank you good people for hanging on to this one hour and two minute episode of the realtors podcast with Chester Elton. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. And, folks, if you didn't listen to this live, all you got to do is go online to realtors.com slash podcast, and RSVP or an upcoming event that works with your schedule. there on out you'll be notified of every single live interview that we have coming up and emails with summaries of these fantastic leaders that you can share with someone in need. Also, I want you to email me questions, email me topics, email me leaders. Or if you want to come on the show, email us be at real dash leaders.com that's ve at real dash leaders.com that's it for me. Have a great day and always folks. Keep it real.

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