Peter Van Stolk  0:00  
And that's what's so exciting because retailers are large retailers are looking at this and saying, Hey, you know, this is makes sense. And when we said that we were going to work with Walmart, our our community was like, Whoa, dude, what the hell are you doing? That's crazy. And we're No, we're This is really important because if we are going to change the world, and stop the insanity that we're doing, we can't make people wrong, we have to make them strong and make them better. 

kevin edwards  0:29  
You are listening to the real leaders podcast, your number one source for impact leaders, harnessing capitalism to sustain the planet, people and profits. That was the voice of Peter van Stolk, the founder and CEO of both spud and food x, who shares today why big brands are looking to his company to not only save money, but reduce their environmental impact. What is the circular economy? What is the future of food and its impact? trade off those questions answered on this episode of the relators podcast. Enjoy. And we'll get going here in 10 98765432, and one and welcome everyone, to this episode of the real leaders podcast. I'm your host, Kevin Edwards, and joining us today is the CEO of one of the largest online grocery stores in Canada, as well as the CEO of food x technologies, Mr. Peter vanstone. Peter, thanks for being with us today. 

Peter Van Stolk  1:37  
Thank you very much for having me, Kevin. 

kevin edwards  1:39  
So spud.ca What does it stand for? And how does this story go? 

Peter Van Stolk  1:46  
Sure. spud.ca stands for sustainable produce revenue delivery. And SPUD has been delivering groceries in Western Canada for about 20 years. So we've been doing this a long time and what we've been Focus on is sustainable ways with respect to the food systems that people eat. And our mission is to allow people to eat better food, and sort of work with local small vendors and retailers to have local organic, non GMO products throughout the system. That's what we've been doing for 20 years. And FoodX is taking the technology that we've been using by sped and enabling large retailers to go online with a focus of sustainability and profitability because we think that with you create a an ecosystem where people are focused on what's right, when food is really an important part of all of our, our daily lives. And so how we do that is we look at the food that people are eating, how it's grown, how it's delivered. And we created a system that allows retailers to look at small vendors, large, large retailers and enable them to look at and deal with the inherent difficulties of online grocery.

kevin edwards  3:00  
Okay, well that's that's great Peter, you know, food being such a difficult challenge. What fascinates me about food really is anytime you go to a grocery store or you go to a restaurant chain, you really don't appreciate how it gets there. How does the sustainable produce urban delivery get from point A to point B?

Peter Van Stolk  3:19  
Yeah, so first of all, I'll just give you our history. Our history was a CSA. So we started as back in the day when organic food wasn't prevalent in grocery stores. Farmers needed a system that they could actually get their produce to customers. So CSA is where can be Community Supported Agriculture. And so as a community supported agriculture, we would work with local farmers, specifically organic farmers, and offer their produce to customers in in many different forms, but it started with a CSA box. So you as a customer, you'd order your box and every week we'd send you produce that was grown locally, and from that it evolved into growth. Freeze till you people answer that we really love your vegetables. Now, can you sell us milk? And can you provide us with fish, any providers, staples, and so from basically 200 skews of produce, we've grown into 30,000 skews of grocery item. So that's what SPUD has done over the years. And in that process, we've looked at how the packaging impacts customers. From recyclability, we've looked at the ingredients, we have a banned ingredient list. So we take it quite seriously that what the food that you're feeding your family, and how you should look at that. And so we take, for example, on banned ingredient lists, we look at what the US has banned, we look at what Canada has banned, and we looked at what the EU has banned, and unfortunately, they're not consistent among those three, three jurisdictions. So what we do is say if it's banned in the UK, or banned in the EU, that's probably means it's not good for you and even though it's not banned in Canada, We actually then remove that from the system. So our team is constantly looking for products that we know meet the criteria that our customers want. Which means that they want to be sure trust that what we're providing them is good for their families. And they don't even have to think about it because we won't have it. So we don't sell high fructose corn syrup. We don't sell product with high fructose corn syrup. And there's lots of reasons why we don't sell sodium benzoate. So there's just ingredients that we say, hey, these are not like, we're not making judgment calls. Would you said that that's not who our customers and customers appreciate the fact that we do all this work to determine what is very important for them and their families.

kevin edwards  5:42  
Yeah, especially as a customer, anyone listening to this right now, if you're an educated consumer, you're thinking non GMO, you just mentioned Okay, is what I'm eating treated with pesticides? Is it bad for the environment? Is it fair trade is a good quality product. So these are all things that a lot of educate consumers are thinking about before they make a decision and they think that their purchase might be a vote toward a better world a better food world. So Peter, the question I have is organic foods, a lot of these Fairtrade products coming directly from smallholder farmers might be a little bit more expensive, Whole Foods model, they have non GMO foods as well as just your regular food and they let the customer buy has has an increase in cost effective your company and what are you seeing with spud?

Peter Van Stolk  6:33  
Yeah, that's a great question. So we've chosen that we were not going to have conventional in the spud. were selling organic, but we also sell local and local has sort of a variety isn't when you go to your local farmers market. And you're talking to the farmer who's grown that grown organically because there's a process to certified organic, but you feel comfortable with that farmer because you know where they live, you know, the farm, and they've shared that too. We actually do the same Thanks. So we have organic produce that is certified organic, then we have local that where the farmer is actually stating that he is or she is not growing that with pesticides, and it meets requirements, but it's not certified, because some of these small farmers cannot afford to get certified organic, because it's a very expensive process, but they're growing organic food. So we try and find that when we know where that that farmer is. We walk the fields with them, we talk to them about their products, we understand it. And it's just like you going to a farmers market where you're they're standing at your store, you're standing at their stall, and they're sharing to you why they do what they do. And that's how we operate. We think it's really important to create a food ecosystem that customers and people can appreciate that is transparent. They understand what's going on, and the people trust the food that you're delivering to them. And that's how we operate.

kevin edwards  7:57  
So let's take an example a Peter help. Let's illustrate this. For audience, if I want to buy a bananas, like just a rack of bananas from you how to get from point A to point B, and would it be less or more expensive for me?

Peter Van Stolk  8:10  
Sure. So bananas are a great example. And I'd love to tell you, we want to change the world and be a great society. Let's focus on bananas. So thank you for bringing up bananas because it's a passion of mine. First and foremost, bananas are the number one selling produce item in the world. And there's really two types of bananas you have bananas that are conventionally grown or bananas, or bananas that are organically grown, and Fairtrade. So we sell organic Fairtrade banana. Now, it's unique that a conventional banana is about 10 cents, more or less expensive than an organic banana. But when you're buying a banana, it's the first time in produce that there's no nutritional difference between a banana that's conventional or banana that's organic. What you're making your decision on is what's right for the farmer And the soil that's been grown, because what you're seeing is that yes, you can buy conventional banana, that nutritional factoring exactly the same as the conventional as an organic. But the difference is that that 10 cents is going to where the farmer grew how the farmer grows the pesticides. And the scary thing is that on on farming perspective, bananas use the highest amount of pesticides and fungicides per one commerce growing than any other produce. And so if we start to think of this as how we are going to change the world, but you have to realize that having a safe planet is just as important as having good produce. So if you think about bananas, they grow in tropical air. Where do all those pesticides, fungicides and all those chemicals roll off? They roll on to the people that grow it, and the soil and the oceans, and they they pollute around it? So I'm a big proponent that says, yes, you vote with your dollar. If you want to choose or mention banana, you're making that decision. But if you choose an organic banana, you're choosing a system that is better for your children, not because of the nutritional factors, but you're choosing a banana or a produce item that's better because there's no fungicides or pesticides going in the ocean. And the people that are growing, those things are not getting sick for the food that you're eating. And that's a unique conversation that we have with our customers about the difference in cost. So yes, it's 10 cents more per banana. But is that 10 cents worth it? when you really think about it? And can you get excited about changing the world on a banana? I am the firm believer that if we all said we're not going to buy conventional bananas, we would actually change the planet.

kevin edwards  10:47  
Well, let's stick with the bananas and let's go bananas here today. I love this company. And I know the CMO, Nick Ingersoll bar NaNa And what they do is they upcycle Bananas. So for our audience out there, they take all the ugly bananas, they're gonna get thrown away, and they turn them into healthy, delicious bite sized snacks they sell Sure, upcycling is a part of the circular economy, and totally and this is a similar trade and feature to what spud is doing as well. Would you maybe help our audience understand how or what spuds role is in the circular economy and how this kind of works?

Peter Van Stolk  11:25  
Sure, well, let's just talk about let's talk about food waste for one second. So, food waste is if we looked at food waste holistically, it would be the number third country in the world for greenhouse gas emissions. If you look at Project drawdown, and you think about what we can do as a society use top 100 things that we can do to change the planet, you'd find that food is listed in eight of the top 20. And food waste, if I'm not mistaken is number three or four but it's in the top five. Food waste is incredibly important. So When you're talking about upcycling something, we're talking about understanding, we grow food and throw it away, which is a system that is wack. And that is completely wrong. So, our system First of all, we want as a retailer, we know that traditional retailers have about 6% shrink or food waste, and spied, we have half a percent. So that's an incredible difference from anyone else. And then we'd start with how we order we don't have displays of bananas, where you can go into a store and touch every banana, pick the ones you want, and think about produce, and I'm just focusing on produce now. But every time somebody touches up leafy green or banana or something, it actually deteriorates the banana. And it makes it food waste happen even faster. And that's, you know, think about the number of people who touch the tomatoes that you're about to buy from a grocery store. There are thousands of people who touch those tomatoes. And that's and they build these beautiful displays. And then what happens is those displays have to be taken down, and there's a portion of that display that has to be thrown away. So what we've served said is that we look at the system, from the time that you order your product to the time you get it to your door. And we try and eliminate things that can actually cause the produce to go bad, thus causing it to be thrown away or causing problems with it. We then look at 10 when it is going off, how can we upcycle repurpose it? So we then use it for banana bread? Oh, because it's a, you know, an old banana made into a phenomenal banana bread is phenomenal product. So we look at everything that we do from the system of how can we first eliminate in the first place? Because it's huge. You just don't you want to stop? And then when there is waste, how can you repurpose that waste into a better product, or if it's sort of upcycling like the gentleman or the company you mentioned, those are what we do. And so we take it from holistically coming into the system so we don't over order, which is if you eliminate your over order you're eliminating the waste, you then have a system where you're not damaging the products when during your sales cycle, we eliminate the damage in the product, we then we don't have inventory over inventory of it with respect to displays. So we mean ensuring that we're having the right product for the customer at the right time without causing excessive waste. And that's what we think we should retailers need to start to think about is because we cannot afford to have these products. You know, it's $400 billion of food is thrown away before it even gets to the stores. That's that's a number. That's insane.

kevin edwards  14:37  
It is insane. It is insane. I think the style is like we produce enough food to feed everyone on the planet. We just don't distribute it properly. Right. So that is excellent. It's interesting to think about and you know, something like this for our listeners out there could be applied to almost any industry. I mean, look at clothing, look at clothing and fashion. The thing for me is it's difficult is you know, you have all these You know, say recycled materials or recycled plastics that are originally were ones were made to waste and then now are collected and recycled. But if I have a pair of shoes, and then I grow out of them and and I, and I'm a kid, and I'm not a part of the shared economy, I'm probably going to throw those away or unless I donate in the goodwill, or they they tear apart, so they tear apart even that that good then that goes back to the landfill. So ultimately, my hopes of recycling and me a conscious consumer will go back to that, you know, to the landfill or something like that and not be decomposed and be harmful for the environment and have a lot of co2 emissions because of the transportation that's involved in that way. Now, transportation is what I want to move on to next. How are you looking and measuring at your carbon emissions? And what are the what are the extra steps that spot is taking to decrease their their, their impact on the environment?

Peter Van Stolk  15:51  
Sure. First of all, it's transparency. So if you are ordering by today, we tell you the food miles how far that product has traveled. Now we can And again, I don't want to go too back to bananas, but there's a number one selling produce item, and we don't grow them in Canada, nor do you grow them in the United States, or unfortunate here in Puerto Rico, there's some markets that do grow bananas. in mainland United States, we don't. So first of all, you need to know how far that bananas travel, because that's your carbon footprint. So every product that we sell has a food mile attached to it, we track and so you as a consumer, know how far that product is traveling. So you can make a decision based on p one, and you can shop with you if you say I want to shop within X amount of food miles, and you have my total food mile per my order is this, we give you the option to do that. So we present products that have traveled fewer all these different things, but it's about information and providing the consumer with the right information is critical at the time. So that's where first step is what we do is we provide the information for you to make the decision. And the second thing that we will do is with through food miles is that we have a circular system where our trucks Go out full delivering groceries and they come back, and any truck will do this he'll come back empty. We use that backhaul to service our local vendors so that we know that trucks go up full, how can we use that backhaul which then is reducing the carbon footprint. Because the trucks are not delivering to us empty we're using a truck that's already in the field is coming back picking up produce bringing it back to our facility going out in a circular system. We also use the reverse logistic to take back plastic it cannot be recycled in our traditional municipal landfills. So we have a take back program where we our customers then can put back items into their bins, and we will properly recycle them. So where are we going? Where we're going as an as a retailer, we want to be accountable for the products that we sell and the packaging that we sell inclusive. So if you think about it right now groceries to your when you buy a product right now, Kevin, you're looking at the nutritional facts panel. So you know what The nutritionist you can hear the gradients, but are you truly understanding what the packaging is? So what we've started is that we have three pet back panels, one in here ingredients. So you don't want products with certain ingredients because you from your diet perspective. Two you want to understand the nutritional facts panel, poke through what we've done is is this product recyclable in your community. So we service five communities that have different municipal recycling requirements, because they are all different. So some products can go into landfills, some can't some go in recycling. We identify by the community where you live. So when you lived in chilliwack, which is in a community and outside Vancouver here, or if you live in Pemberton or Whistler or Edmonton or Calgary or Victoria. There are different zones that have different community recycling program. Each of the products that we sell is identified within the community that you live in, so that you know that if you bought this product that you can put it back And it is recycled. If it's not, then we will take it back and recycle it for you properly. That's how we think we take the conversation put the information first and foremost to you. And we educate people that said, it's not just about the ingredients anymore. It's not just about the nutritional facts. It's also about the packaging. So today, we're our team. We have as you know, we're B Corp, and we're very proud of what we do we have a sustainability team that's looking at egg carton. So how can we sell reusable egg cartons? So that those we have there is a meeting going on today and you maybe see what people walking back or they're coming from a meeting that discussing a car. That is so cool, and we have a reusable kind of whole thing about how do we use reuse, reuse and recycle certain things. I'm a big proponent that and I like what some of the the other brands are doing as you're starting to promote for non virgin plastic because until We legislate that retailer or their brand holders have to use recycled plastic, it's still cheaper for them to use virgin plastic. So the system is continuously broken, because we're focusing on recycling, but nobody wants to use the material that we're recycling, because it may have an off color, or it may not be. So it's still cheaper to use virgin plastics. And we're a big proponent of saying, hey, you're going to be using some packaging, that's a reality of 2020. And it's probably a reality of 2020 to reduce as much packaging as you can. And if you're going to use packaging then for the brand owners to use recycled plastic in their production, because the greater the amount of recycled packaging is, the more you're taking out a landfill. That's how we look at it.

kevin edwards  20:47  
Yeah, Peter, there's a there's been a lot of leadership changes amongst big corporations. The SC Johnson's the Unilever saying we're going to be using recycled plastic now and we're going to insert attacks are like some type of premium on on virgin plastics and just for our audience really quick, we've been throwing around some big words, drawdown, drawdown to me is that just drawing down the carbon emissions, building regenative soils?

Peter Van Stolk  21:14  
dry down. Yeah. So Project drawdown.org is an organization that is from a collective minds of scientists around the world that have said, okay, we're not on this bus to abyss we as, as consumers, we as individuals, we, as citizens of this community, we have things that we can do to change that. So they listed the 10 things that we can do are the hundred things that we can do this the impact on carbon emissions. And so like number three, and number four, as I said about food waste, but number four is educating women. And it's these are so many cool things. And I'm a big fan of project right now because it's a scientific matter and I I'm finding it very difficult when we debate science because it's hard to debate science. If we are just saying this is scientific that we are heating, the world is getting hotter, we have to address those issues. What are some of the things we can do to stop that, that rise in temperature? And that's what I really liked about it because it talks about it in a non there's no blame. There's no we're not blaming, we're not making someone wrong. We're not making someone you know, this is it's just reality. And so that's what I really like about it. So our team works off that document. And I would recommend your listeners to go to God project God drawdown org and if it feels empowering, because right now sometimes we feel that we are on this bus to a best right and we have no control over anything. And you know, you talked about your upcycling your your shoes, and you talked about clothes. And those are things that there are things that we can do and some Patagonia is doing some really cool things. I like what they're doing on their take back. We recycle clothes. I see that is The consumers are really excited about that. And there was a recent report that I published on my life in Firefox that said that Nestle is and I just have it right here is that Nestle just did a I'm sorry, Nielsen comm just came out. That said 73% 73% of consumers would change behavior to reduce the impact on the planet. That's very, very powerful for everyone who's in the business of providing goods to consumers. Consumers want products that have a low impact on the planet. They want to feel like they're part of the solution. So one of our trade lines is be part of the solution. So if you shop at spud, we're saying you're being part of a solution to a bigger problem. And with respect to the cost that you brought up, yes, it is more expensive to eat organic. And let's just quickly answer the question Why? Because you're not spraying chemicals. With a machine, you're actually someone's going through the field and weeding it. So there are products that you know, the Dirty Dozen and the clean 15. So we we recommend people look at the Dirty Dozen, we recommend that people look at the clean 15. And we're saying these are just common sense things that you can do. And so obviously, we we promote to children, and because a lot of our customers are moms, and they, they're, they're concerned about the food they give to their children. So from our side of it, we think it's really important that they have the knowledge and the information. So first and foremost, it's about providing transparency, knowledge and being accountable, and then people can make the right decisions. That's where we see it happening. And, you know, we're we're very, very committed to providing the information to our consumers and make the decisions that is best for their families.

kevin edwards  24:56  
Well, that's our breaking that down for us. I just, we just we You and I both think it's really important for our audience and then people listening is just to understand these these terminologies terminology because it you know, starting out and doing these podcasts, it was kind of confusing and throughout you know doing hundreds and hundreds of these now it's it's it makes sense but the people listening in for the first time I get a lot of feedback saying hey, can you break down some different terms for us shares so they mix No. So really quick, and then we'll go on to I want to continue with packaging in the infrastructure, shared economy, I threw that out there shared economy to me just think like Airbnb, or a car sharing service or sharing utensils or hardware, just not buying new products, when you can actually just use them for like a one time use. We talked about single use and non virgin plastic, single use to me now think about the circular economy people, you make a product and then you wasted that's the linear economy, the circular economy, you can make it to be made again or to decompose. So that's how I kind of break those down. But for packaging, very important issue and a lot of listeners listening to say, well, Peter, what if I want some ice cream? How do you how do you get that to me? Is there something that you do? Do you freeze it, you put it in the freezer bag? How does that packaging change for a product that needs to be frozen?

Peter Van Stolk  26:17  
Sure. So you and the consumer after deciding what the packaging you works, works well with you and your eat in your ecosystem, and I think at the municipal recycling is in yours, where you live is your ecosystem. So you first have to know what they can accept and use that is the first piece and when we talk to customers, they don't know that you can they can do what they can do with these. So again, it starts back with real clear information. You live in this community b this is the infrastructure they have plastic this thing, infrastructure they have or compostable. This is the this is it. This is how they their system. So first, know what you have within your ecosystem or your community. That's a very efficient Believe to me personally. Because if you don't know that, then you could be making mistakes that the suit, they've already spent money to build these recycling things, and we're not using them properly, because that's crazy man. That makes me crazy because like, but kids know this stuff, but know what we're doing and play properly. And so from our perspective is that if we can give you that information, at a click of a button, that your order your product, your ice cream you choose, this one is in plastic, and you can go in your fulfillment, or your municipal recycling, or you choose this when it's glass, and it's recycled, is glass better than plastic, we have a whole system on that. We tell you what they were, how you know the difference, there is not a perfect system. And I think that that's what we're trying to to, to say in in 2020. We've created a food system that is not perfect. So let's not try and be perfect, but let's try and make the biggest changes that we can make to have the biggest impact that we We can have. So the end from our perspective that starts with knowledge. And again, I mean, I don't want to sound like a broken record. But we believe that people will make the right decisions when they have the right information. If they care about what the other, if they care about them more about the planet more than they're that 10 cent on the banana. And that's why bananas come back to us. It's really important because you're making a decision, that decision is your decision. Do you want to spend 10 cents more for an organic minute and and know that you're not putting any pesticides, fungicides and causing the families of those workers to be put in harm? Or do you want to spend 10 cents and get a cheaper banana? That's your choice. And we hope that people are making those choices that spend that 10 cent more better and according to Nielsen, they would change their behavior. So now if people are growing more organic, Fairtrade bananas, obviously the cost of organic Fairtrade bananas will come down and that 10 cents Well being five cents, but you're not sending all those chemicals into the ocean that are killing the fish that are you know, and killing the people. It's it's just mind numbing that to me that we have to look at it this way.

kevin edwards  29:13  
Yeah, Peter, it's uh, I think you you hit on an interesting point that I didn't think you were going to say and you said it's imperfect right now our system is imperfect and what I what I think of that is as I don't know where I stand right now on plastic and plastic recycling because the infrastructure is not as robust as it needs to be right now in the United States. And the reason I say that is because if I recycle something, it's it's plastic. It's going to take a certain amount of years to biodegrade in landfills. If I use it for recycler now it's gonna be a it's gonna have a lot of costs. And if you compare that to something like paper, like view the paper bag at a store. I didn't know this until a couple weeks ago, but I heard now correct me if I'm wrong. I'm quoting somebody that we had the podcast earlier who was also a Real Leaders Impact Award winner. She was saying paper take, I think it takes a lot more water to create and use therefore, in theory, it's it's more environmentally damaging than plastic for backs. So I didn't know that it's interesting to think about. So for for, for, for spud, what are some of the things that we all have to be, you know, I guess maybe humility is the word humble is the word about in terms of our, our products and where we place them?

Peter Van Stolk  30:36  
Yeah, so again, I think Kevin, you said it really, we don't have a perfect solution. But let's start with that. So it's not make anyone wrong. And let's get better at what we're doing. And you're completely correct on recycling. You know, I in the United States, recycling, you know, China stopped accepting 100 containers a day in the United States with garbage. They stopped it The Philippines have stopped it. So we've been shipping our garbage to his to other countries for them to deal with, because we can't sell it. And I don't know if you just saw the announcement that China is now banning single use plastic, and they are filled. So they created a system in China for their 100 football fields that in in size to deal with waste. And that was going to be designed to last 25 years it's filled today. Now I find that really exciting because you have in a nation now good, better and different, but they're making they're seeing that we have to change and and when these legislations occur that says okay, we have to change it. You're seeing that in the EU. We're doing a lot of work in the EU right now and we're seeing retailers are hearing that legislation is coming they have to change it. spud, we ban plastic bottles, we do not sell what still water in plastic bottle. We do not I sell it and we're just saying that we're making that commitment to it. And we did an analysis is aluminum cans better is plastic. But, you know, the reality isn't. We live in Vancouver, Canada and Vancouver has really good water. So bottled water is just a convenience. So now we're buying bottled water as a convenience, not because we have a water issue is because we have a convenience issue. And so we're putting more garbage in the planet because we want to be convenient. And so the convenience that we have is something that we have to address. So as we've just said, you know, our decision at spud is that we don't use plastic bags so wear the only retailer that doesn't deliver in plastic bags in e commerce. It's not an option. You don't have to push a button you just don't get them. There's not a it's not up to you to say no, it's not. There's no debate. If you want to shop from us, we're not going to deliver to you in plastic bags period. And we're able to work with our partners in this case, we work with delivering groceries for under 100 fidex core partner here in Vancouver Walmart, which is the world's largest retailer retailer. And we've said you can't deliver if you're going to use our service in plastic bags and they don't. And that's what's so exciting because retailers are large retailers are looking at this and saying, Hey, you know, this is make sense. And when we said that we were going to work with Walmart, alright, our community was like, Whoa, dude, what the hell are you doing? That's crazy. And we're No, we're This is really important. Because if we are going to change the world, and stop the insanity that we're doing, we can't make people wrong. We have to make them strong and make them better. And it's not about saying that Walmart's good or bad, it's how do we improve what Walmart's doing to make it better for the planet? Now spud is a very small company, tiny, tiny, tiny on the scale of thing and Walmart is the largest retailer in the world. So if we're going to impact change in the world, we need to be able to communicate to companies such as Walmart, such as you know, Some of these companies, a us to Unilever, you said you list all these other and make them start to see the importance of making change, because that's when you're going to have this the mass change is going to have an impact on a global basis. And I think that's one of the things that I'm really excited about is that we've been able to communicate to people in a way that's effective. It's, it's purposeful, it's exciting, but it's not making them wrong. No, you know, and I think one of the things that I've, I believe in is it, food is should not be treated as a luxury tax. You know, just because our consumers may have more means to buy organic, because it's more expensive. We shouldn't make people who have less means to them, we should make good food accessible to people with less with less means, instead of saying it's all about the price. So we have to serve serve work in that system. So that's why it's so exciting about food x and that's our vision of food x Is it we want to enable large retailers to make better decisions with respect to delivery of food, and how to deliver food in a more economical and more sustainable way than they've ever done before. And that's what we get excited about every morning. So, it is a big, big call. And it is a scary goal. And you know, it's

but it's if we don't do it, who's going to do it? You know, I haven't I have a 26 year old daughter, who, who, you know, I want to be I want to go to my grave saying I you know, what I tried? You know, I made something I made a difference. I didn't, you know, we were we came into a society or into a time in this world where we was very abundant. Now we have to be use technology innovation, for sustainability. And that's what we were all about at Codex and we take in our sort of our hyper local kind of very military opinions on sustainability. And we've moved them into an a platform that enabled retailers. Like today I was just with a retailer that has, you know, probably 8 billion in revenues. And we're talking sustainability. How cool is that? Like that? That is so cool. How can they take some of the sugar work with them, and they're open to those ideas. That is really, really cool. And, you know, that's what we've been able to do as a company where we're not trying to make someone wrong. And we're not making yelling and screaming, screaming, calling them names. We're saying this is a real problem. Let's move past this craziness of making something black and white because it's not it is great. It is not perfect. But you know, it's it's got to be better. And that's what we're seeing. And I'm really excited about the future because I think it's it's crazy. And an opportunity for people to get really good at stuff. And so from Pittsburgh, we are like this little incubator is testing this crazy stuff. And then if it works, we can then show it to big retailers and see if they want to use it. And the reason why they want to use it, because let's just talk about food waste, Kevin for one second, food waste is the one thing that we should do as a society, because every retailer should be on this boat, or on this bandwagon so fast because it's costing them money. So if retailers are spending 6% of their retail sale, in throwing away profitable goods, that's not good business. So let's make this not about this or that let's make this about good business. So if they can cut their own shrink, or their food waste from 6% to half a percent, that's more profit and we live in a capitalist society where profits are good. So let's make saving the environment profitable. Let's make it say that how can we do it and not make it? say, well, we're going to put windmills up there. And it's going to cost all this and everybody know, we're putting windmills up there because it is profitable. And it's better and, and that's how we want to talk within the food ecosystem.

kevin edwards  38:17  
It's interesting, you know, Peter, it's, it's, it's such an existential problem. And let you know, let's just let's take, for example, let's say it's 2050. And we all have been wiped out by a meteor or a pandemic. And you know, I don't know what's going on right now in China, but a Yeah, let's say we're not wiped out yet. And the population doubles which mean the food supplies supposed to double to fit like it's supposed to increase 50 to 70%. Like that's what it needs to get up to. We heard from a general the US military biggest threat isn't our enemies. It's food scarcity. Right. So these these big these big questions are out there. Now. You said no, we don't have it's not a right or wrong thing. It's a it's an empowerment thing. It's an education thing. Do you believe these big brands These companies like Walmart are coming to you because they're taking market share, or do you think they're coming to you? Because they're seeing these big problems, they are realizing them. And they're saying, Oh, shit, these guys know how to solve it. Let's go out and talk to them.

Peter Van Stolk  39:12  
I think it's a combination everything right? So I think, as I said, so we look at food waste, right? So there's $400 billion of food wasted before it even gets in store. So how efficient do we is that system is typically better, like there's food waste three, there's three functions of food waste one pre production to grocery to at grocery and three in consumer. So you can't solve the problem without looking at the three channels of food. So we waste food producing it. We waste food, selling it, and we waste food consuming it. That's That's it. So if we talk about food waste, and in general, in a general sort of area, food waste would be the third largest country behind the United States and China. greenhouse gas emission. So here you have common sense, and I'm not that smart. But let's just common sense. You have an inefficient system that we built over the years that is creating, causing us to have more greenhouse gases and required and also causing retailers, consumers and producers to pay more for the food that we grow. And now we have a challenge that we won't have enough food to grow in the future. So let's take this and and reconnect and re change the way we're thinking and turn it on its head and say okay, we have three separate problem now because spud in our mind, do we solve the first problem? No, but we identified it. We can help retailers and small local farmers with their excess product. Do we do that? Yes, but out so now we show that how that works to the large player. Second, do we help the the food the food waste issue at the sale point when products produce or grocery items are sold yet, why do we do that we have technology that does it. And now we haven't talked about the consumer, for the consumer now has to be responsible for their food waste, and how they, but all those threes are intertwined. And it's all a really good conversation. And it's a conversation that people can understand. And it's just interesting right now is that it's the food waste that we're doing is is basically causing the issues that we're having. So I'm just going to go back and say the three things that I would really look at is what are we responsible for? When we pick this decide? And what do we want to do is we want to educate consumers on how they can save money, both of those things, save the consumer money, and save returns, and they're better for the environment. So when we say that our mission is to use innovation and technology to provide an eco food system that is sustainable, and profitable, we think that's a mandate. that people can get behind because profitability is about reducing costs, providing healthier food to consumers who can afford it or who can who want it, but also making healthier food available for people who have less means and others and that's really what we want to do. 

kevin edwards  42:15  
So Peter word in terms of like government policy that can really help out these economies anything let's let's take a look at this really quick. You mentioned that you mentioned China, their taste your trash, I just want to get this right from what I've read China was taking not trash, but they're taking recycled products, correct, because they

Peter Van Stolk  42:31  
call it trash because they were just thrown in the garbage.

kevin edwards  42:34  
Right. And, and so you know, China, you know, not in terms of GDP, I think they're like, you know, 17 or 18 years ago, and then they started taking these recycled products to fit their manufacturing needs. I'm not gonna claim that China is or India is like a great, you know, role model for carbon emissions, but, but they're, they're doing great jobs in terms of I didn't even know about the single use plastic ban that they're doing, but they're different. Different countries, you look at Europe, you look at China, I mean, those can have really effective solutions, government solutions because of how they operate and work and like where it's government funded state funded, versus the America, the capitalist, you're making a company and your bank or Canada, free free markets, things like this. So in terms of so let's take Canada and the United States, for example. What are there any government policies or changes or recommendations that you have seen or thought of that you think could actually been an effective solution for market driven solutions?

Peter Van Stolk  43:35  
Yeah, well, you know, I can't really speak to the US market right now. So I'm going to not talk better yet. But in case in Canada, the current Liberal government last year in June of 2019, announced that they are going to by 20201. They're going to make retailers accountable for the products they sell the bag with including the package If you look at in the Europe, that's their their European governments are forcing legislation. And unfortunately, that's where we have to use a government when it's designed to do it's designed to make the hard decisions that are better for the groups by end by meaning the groups the community or the to the civil, the citizens of that country, to a government's decision is, in my opinion, does have to make some tough choices. That's what government does. And it has to look at the the information, the data, the science and says we are going to cost us more in healthcare. It's going to cost us more in environmental disasters, it's going to cost us more in all these things. So we're making a decision that may not be perfect, but this decision and we're seeing those decisions being made in EU and in Canada, we're also seeing those decisions made as effectively as this week in China. So it's those are the tough decisions. So I think one of the things that we talked about a fair market economy, and we talked about capitalist society, but we're also talking about, you know, governments and governments are saying, you know, they put a speed limit on when you drive that is regulated by the government. You cannot drive as fast as you want through school, because it's unsafe, and no one complains about that. So there are going to make some decisions that are that they have to make with respect to how we do business. And unfortunately, that's not going to be great for companies that are want to do business the same way we're doing, because that the way they were doing business isn't the way they should do business in the future. And we have to address that. And I think one of the things that it's just common sense is that's the role of government to put in policies that are designed to better the total to live Our total community's not just better, certain individual, I see that happening in certain markets. And I think you're gonna see Australia come really, really hard on stuff right now, because they've taken it a really hard approach over the with the fires, and they're going to make some really tough decisions. So you're seeing China, currency Australia, you're seeing the EU. You're seeing countries make tough decisions that need to be made to be part of the solution. Yeah, that's a train I want to back. Yeah, we want to be part of this solution, not not just complain about it, and not be part of the problem. So if your listeners are just listening and say, Hey, you know, that's a really that's a really nice bait. I want to be part of the solution. I just want to be, you know, I, I just want to be part of a solution versus because we all have choices, right? We choose, you know, and we all can choose and vote with their dollars. And it's unfortunately that not everybody, and I totally Get not everyone has the social economic means to vote with their dollars that we do. So we have to address that. And it's not making them wrong. It's but the goal is to make them strong. And

I really believe that we need to be part of the solution right now and put our and I'll say this our political biases aside and play for a bigger group. And one of the things that I think is really important is that we are, we are one people. And it doesn't matter what, you know, the United States does, if China rots the planet, the United States is going to get impacted. If United States rots the planet China's gonna get impacted. We live in a global community and that hasn't served sunk into a lot of consumers that we are we are all enjoying this one beautiful place we call Earth and we don't have these boundaries of United States Canada because we are breathing the same air so if we are going to cut In the rain forest in you know, and those are the lungs, then that will impact someone in Alabama. That is a reality. And it's not up to debate. It's not fake news. It's just a frickin reality. So let's address that and say what can we do to be part of the solution? Well, if you look at kelp, kelp, we can grow kelp, which had can create, we can create lungs, because we have this amazing opportunity to grow kelp. They can provide the same sort of ones that as the rainforest. But that is a new solution to a problem that we've got. So we are smart enough as the people to solve the problem. We're just not smart enough to get out of our own way to stop blaming other people for doing and playing by old stupid rules. In my opinion, that's my opinion.

kevin edwards  48:47  
People are listening to this. They're saying, Man, this guy really gets it. You know, he's really enthusiastic about what he does seems like he actually feels like he's contributing to that solution. Why do you do what you do?

Peter Van Stolk  49:01  
Well, yeah, you know, my background is I, I started in a soda company and I, when I realized that I didn't want to sell sugar water, I left that company. And I realized that, you know, here's you're looking at someone who started a company that was realized that sugar water and I'm proud of what I've accomplished, so starting that company, and I'm also proud that I was the first Cincy only CEO that said, You should drink only one of my sodas a week because it's a treat. It's a treat, and you shouldn't drink them every day. And saying that my daughter had was allowed to have one soda a week. And that was it. That's where I think it's moderation. It's we have a choice. And so, when I when I was working with this soda company, I realized that that I have to be better. And so after that, I looked, I looked at the companies and spied was organic bedwin sustainable spud touched all the values that really mean something to me. It allowed me to, to, to understand and take my knowledge of the food system that I work with, and provide a hopefully a better solution for other people. And also understand that we live in, like, you know, Canada is 200 in otakon miles, Canada's most cities in Canada are within 100 miles of the US border. So do we not think that the air is going to cross from one country to the next? Thanks for doing I think the water that the fish that we swim, like in their face don't really have a border, there's, you know, Canadian fish, Americans. They're all gonna be impacted. We all are buying food for bananas from poor countries in the world. And so this is crazy bill that we think that we're needed around the world. So that's when I searched that. Sorry about that. But that's where I believe

kevin edwards  50:54  
that's a good point. Yeah, I'm pretty jealous of fish that don't need a passport than that. Yeah, we know country to country nowadays. I hate those guys. But Peter, you mentioned choices, we can all make a choice. Our choices impact everything. So, choices and decisions. You mentioned, organizations and politicians have to make tough decisions to train the leadership. So Peter, the last question I have for you today is, What is your definition of a realtor?

Peter Van Stolk  51:24  
I think you answered it, you know, unfortunately, I'm a real leader listens to the facts. And first of all, they're smart enough to listen to people from other perspectives. So a real leader has the ability to listen and listen to other people because there's so many different perspectives. And then you acknowledge that perspective, but you don't have to agree with it. That's the one thing that I think a real leader definitely has to acknowledge or he or she has to acknowledge, doesn't have to agree. They have to acknowledge because they have to make the person feel like they're being heard. Then they have to weigh that information within the community, the company, or their, their, whatever this their their sort of fear of influence has. And they have to make a decision that's best for the community as a whole. And they have to then be able to justify and clearly explain why they're not going to make everyone happy. Unfortunately, they're here not in life, you can't make everyone happy. But what you can do is you can listen to everyone acknowledge what they're saying, and explain why. Now, if we all understand that we're playing on the same football team, and I use sports analogy very easily, because people get it, you're playing on one team. As soon as we've got to get back to playing on one team. This is and as soon as you play on one team, you explain what the objectives of the team is, explain what the rules of the game are, and explain where we're going. And a leader has to effectively explain rules and objectives and the goals and they have to do that by Listening to the people aren't. So that's what I think real leader does. And they make tough decisions based on acknowledgement and support. And so it's not making them wrong and yelling and screaming and making calling people names. That's not leadership. That is the furthest thing from leadership. what leadership is, is acknowledging and making the decisions that work for this community that you support.

kevin edwards  53:23  
Oh, man, what a show today, Peter, I'm glad we were able to make this work out today with the trouble we were having earlier on on the show and the screen. Gotcha. talked about a lot today. talks about bananas, organic transportation to the packaging, to share the economy, circular economy, single use China. We talked about market share and social pressure infrastructure. And lastly, Peter why you do what you do. So for Peter van Stolk, I'm Kevin Edwards asked you to go out there play on one team people make tough decisions and always focus Give a real next video. 

Peter Van Stolk  54:02  
Thank you so much for the opportunity.

kevin edwards  54:05  
All right, everyone, and if you enjoyed this episode and want to hear from more leaders, we've got plenty of them in our magazine, the real leaders magazine, and I am giving you all 25% off today. All you have to do is go to real dashboard, comm slash subscribe and enter in code podcast 25 it's going to bring the price down to $54 and you can start receiving our quarterly magazine every three months. Again, folks, that's podcast 25 all lowercase podcast 25 25% off Alright, enjoy.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai