Fabien Cousteau 0:01 Proteus is the next step in ocean exploration. Imagine building the International Space Station underwater, and being able to have that that platform as a common good and as a Advanced Research Station for, for bettering humanity, for being able to address things like COVID. I'm now looking at chemical compositions that will be able to be synthesized instead of years and weeks and months to be able to find those next cures for cancer and pain mitigation and of course pandemics. kevin edwards 0:34 You are listening to their real leaders podcast where leaders keep it real. I'm your host, Kevin Edwards, and that story comes from who else but Fabian Cousteau, third generation ocean explorer and Aquanaut, who is taking the next leap into ocean exploration. And on today's show, Fabian shares the characteristics of a pioneer, how to expect the unexpected, and then deep dive into the world's largest underwater Research Center and habitat. So without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, please give it up with a real Fabian Cousteau. Enjoy. Alright, let's get going here we go in 5432 and one and welcome everyone to this episode of the real leaders podcast. I'm your host Kevin Edwards. Joining us today is Fabian Cousteau, third generation ocean explorer and aquanaut. Fabian, thanks for being with us today. Fabien Cousteau 1:37 Great to see you. kevin edwards 1:39 So Fabian, I got a good ask it. I was doing this introduction. I was rehearsing a lot for this and I just think, what is an aquanaut? Fabien Cousteau 1:49 I get that question a lot. Well, an aquanaut is, the shortest way to describe is basically an astronaut underwater. It's the it's the liquid version of an astronaut and and i'm not making light of it because it really does require that kind of training. But to get a little more depth to it for those who do dive, when you learn to scuba dive, for example, you learn to avoid decompression obligations, especially in the first couple of levels of scuba diving, recreational events recreation, and that's basically why you have dive tables. And an aquanaut is exactly the opposite in a sense, where you maximize your decompression obligations. So you you saturate in essence, and by that, I mean you you maximize your decompression obligations, but that allows for you to live and work underwater for extended periods of time. And in essence, when you when you do that, I mean there are commercial divers that work underwater under saturation. There are military that work direct Words that work underwater in in certain ways for with decompression obligations. But the main difference is that an aquanaut lives and works underwater based out of an underwater habitat typically for more than 24 hours. And a habitat is basically a house and a workspace underwater where what you would consider a house at home on land and your commute to work with of course is the underwater call. So it's it's a really neat space and it's a it's a it's a very acquired taste, or it's one that you've always yearned to do i mean you know, certain people can and want to be astronauts and certain people can and want to become aquanauts. kevin edwards 3:47 And for folks listening to this on audio Fabian's, got a nice underwater sea background on a zoom background now, so I gotta ask you have you always wanted to live under the water? Fabien Cousteau 3:59 I always wanted Live underwater here's actually a picture for you. That's that's an underwater habitat right there. It's called Aquarius. I would say that I've always loved the ocean, thanks to the generations that brought me up my parents, my grandparents and all the pioneers around them that were ocean explorers. Within the team, they there their love of the ocean, their experience that they were willing to share with me as a child was really that my, my backdrop and my background in education, I mean, yes, I went to school, but I paid much more attention like we were on expeditions. So I've always loved the ocean because I had really good shepherds, that that Shepherd me through my youth to understand the human ocean connection and that real importance, that fundamental importance of what ocean means to all of us whether we're on the ocean front or 1000 miles away. kevin edwards 4:57 Now what was one of the few things That you. I guess they didn't teach you in school that you wish they would be teaching in school nowadays. Obviously, you're an explorer, you're very curious about the oceans. It's very, you know, it's it's really unexplored. What's something that that you wish they would have taught you in school? Fabien Cousteau 5:16 You know, science is a fundamentally important thing, whether we care about it or not. And I wish in some ways, there was maybe even more emphasis on STEM related topics in school than there is already and I know that's shifting in some schools. It's shifted quite dramatically towards STEM education. But when we look at what we're facing today, a lot of the answers lie in STEM education. But we need to be able to offer that to young people in a way that's palatable in a way that's enticing or way that that's, that's engaging and you know, way back when when I was in school, I have to say that it was all about the teacher and on Fortunately, I didn't have much luck with with many of my teachers keeping my attention. Yes, I was probably the quintessential of ADHD kid growing up. And at the same time, there were topics that I look back on that I wish I had a better teacher or maybe a more engaging teacher, in that I probably would have learned more from in school than I did. Luckily, I had a family that was very deep into science and technology and an engineering and all that. And it was really fun because I got to be hands on with all that stuff. And that really caught my attention. And nowadays, you know, we're looking at, at a modern world where people communicate all the time, but we don't necessarily engage each other in ways that are enriching. A lot of it's frivolous. A lot of it's fun, but not necessarily deep. I keep going back to that word deep. But it's, it's something that I wish schools would really concentrate on is, is experiential learning. Because in today's world, kids are you know, they've got so much stimuli. You know, I mean, our mobile devices, just like we're doing right now, really take up a lot of our bandwidth and, and so if we can, maybe incorporate some innovative ways to engage young people, the way that they're used to in their daily lives, but really enriching their experience by sharing some of the magic of the outside world, the non internet world in a way that that they not only will understand, but will pique their curiosity. I think we'd be in a much better place because we'd be as a society much better educated and maybe much better connected with each other. kevin edwards 8:00 Maybe you grew up in a family, obviously, were you exposed to ocean exploration at an early age, just the ocean in general being around the ocean at an early age? Is this something that you could have escaped? What was it like growing up in this family household? Fabien Cousteau 8:22 It's a great question. You know, people assume that I was pressured into doing the quote unquote, family business. And it was actually quite the opposite. We, I remember growing up that we were encouraged to actually explore outside of what the family does and and see what really is our passion. But just like most people, when you're exposed to something that your parents do that your grandparents do, you have an appreciation for it typically. And whether you do it or not, in the long term, you're much better versed in that world. For me, you know, being the rebellious teenager and everything else, I did go out and I and I was I took them up on their offer to look at other things. So I, you know, college I studied environmental economics is kind of bridging that gap between what we were doing and what the, the rest of the world is based on, which is, you know, the fundamentals of economics. And it was a good building block and a good way to, to translate what we as a family have been doing and what we all as a society are, are beholden to as a framework and trying to speak in a language that, that people on bit maybe better understand the importance and value of nature and of our ocean world. I had my first internship at Seventh Generation which is a Environmental products company back in those days, they were solely based on a catalog system. So you actually physically get your, your catalog at home and you would order the products from there. Nowadays you call them generation products everywhere and supermarkets. And I love that, that branching out that kind of experience, but it wasn't getting me wasn't, it wasn't really getting me. So I jumped over and helped my friend out in the interior design world. We were selling high end fabrics to designers and architects and things like that. And again, it was another building block but didn't catch my attention. And I went on from there. And you know, eventually within a few years I turned around and said, you know, what am I doing? You know, I really love what my families do. I really love it ocean exploration, and I've been on expedition since I was seven I've been scuba diving since I was four. And those things were things that really sank to my heart and to my passion and if I were Not to be an archaeologist, which was my other passion, I'd be scuba diving and exploring the world. And that's what I ended up taking up. And I gotta tell you, for those out there who think, hey, oh, yeah, that was easier Cousteau you know, family business and all it working with family for those who work and family understand it's not easy. And for us you know my grandfather was a you know, it was a very innovative very out of the box thinker but he was also very tough, you know, you're you were going to work just like every other crew member up the totem pole, so to speak, and I started scrubbing the barnacles off the hull of Calypso for my summer work, you know, and that went into taking the rust off the engine parts and then eventually doing the graveyard shift on the helm, and so on and so forth. And finally, I got to be a scuba diver on the dive team. And so that was a few years of work, but it gave me a huge appreciation for teamwork is for what a small committee is on a ship, and how, how each one fills in the gaps where others may need help. And it really was a feeling of camaraderie and enrichment and, and, and, and society in a way that's a closed loop system where we're all self reliant on each other, helping each other out. And that, to me was probably the best experience and it gave me even more of a passion for what we do. Interesting. Yeah, kevin edwards 12:27 well, you know, successful people and pioneers like your grandfather, they probably don't get to where they were, by doing things the same way by being conventional by thinking in a mono lithic way. Now, what are some of the things that maybe your grandfather your father, your family instilled in you that you now try to translate into your art your exploration, your own family? Fabien Cousteau 12:51 I like how you say Art. There goes my daughter. No, you stay over there, please. You know, it's, it's? That's a great question. You know, nowadays, I take away and one of the fundamental rules is if you say that's not my job, you're off the team. That's that is, there's no place for that. We work in very remote locations, very risky locations, a lot of times unknown locations under under extreme circumstances. So people who work in this field need to help each other out. I'm just as much the baggage handler as I am the bus driver as I am the team leader, and I wouldn't do anything that I wouldn't expect that I wouldn't expect others to do. Or vice versa. I wouldn't ask anyone to do something that I wouldn't be willing to do myself. And I think that that spirit of camaraderie, that spirit of helping each other out is sorely needed in today's world. And it's what really makes success. And that's what why we've been able to do what we've done under some of the most difficult circumstances, that that work ethic that. That feeling of teamwork is probably some of the best gifts that I was given growing up. kevin edwards 14:23 Now, when you're working in a pressure filled environment, I mean, you're exploring the unknown. You don't know what's going to come next. What's the mindset you have to train for prepare for before you go down into that exploration? Fabien Cousteau 14:40 expect the unexpected. You know, in some ways, I envy people who have a predictable, daily routine, because you can plan for it. For us, we make a plan knowing full well that the plan will change throughout the day. And most likely, it'll change multiple times throughout the day. So you may be going to the depths of the Amazon, for example, and one of your contacts is an indigenous who's supposed to be your guide. And there's a set time and place for it. But you may wait another half day, day, two days for that person to come, because his sense of time is very different. The sense of culture and greetings and interaction is very different. And so you have to be able to be flexible like this. It's always difficult to try and get a an executive producer in a business setting on one of these media companies to understand this, but when you and so that's part of my job is mitigating those two worlds, right. But to be able to go out in the field and be flexible and understanding and really absorb that daily education and rolling with the punches will make for the difference between failure and success in the field. And so when you're going into unknown places, you're talking about things from the mundane meaning you're losing time and money to the very real facts of you may be putting someone at risk and you're in your team, they may be getting injured, or they may even worse, may lose their lives. And that's not something that's acceptable. So for me, it's really about the flexibility and understanding that when you put yourself in that kind of situation, you have to be flexible and change the plan as needs be. kevin edwards 16:41 So Fabian, I'm curious, I'm still trying to understand, could you paint the picture for myself and our audience, what you do specifically, when you go down? What do you look for? What have you seen? Paint the picture on maybe one of your favorite explorations? Fabien Cousteau 16:57 I'm gonna quote my grandfather on that. If I knew what I was going to Find I wouldn't bother going. The nature of an explore is going into places that are outside the box, the unknown. And although that doesn't sell the I mean, that doesn't sell the idea. The The point is you go in with a certain set of criteria, certain set of expectations or a checklist to check off. But the reality is that on your journey, you may very well encounter things that are even more interesting things that are even more unexpected. And your your path will most certainly take a turn left, right, maybe sometimes 180 degrees. And that's that's just part of the game. What do I do personally, I team leader, I sometimes pick up the camera if I need to. Although I much prefer having a professional with me doing that and we always have a camera, I'll sometimes take the camera. I'm the host. I am an executive producer. So that just as a different word for saying a professional beggar. And as I mentioned earlier, I'm a baggage handler and needs to be I'll drive the vehicles to take my team to where we need to go. Man in many trades. You have you have to have multiple trades in order to be able to be in this profession. It's it's a, it's a very difficult one and a oftentimes a thankless one. And what you see on TV or are on produced pieces on the internet are just the cream of the cream. It's less than 1% of what that project was. So I like to show sometimes the behind the scenes also because that's a lot of fun. It shows the humanity. But there's a lot of boring stuff that happens in order for that fun stuff to be put on media. kevin edwards 18:54 I love that notion of what your grandfather says, If I knew what I was going to find out And go anyway, that the notion of, you know, taking risks and then and being okay with diversions in your life, do you think that's the thing that's not taught? Or can't be taught? Or do you think that's the thing that people people struggle with in their daily lives? I mean, for instance, take COVID for, for example, it shook a lot of people up, it caused a lot of turbulence, you know, how do you What's your message, maybe to people listening to this going through a difficult time? Fabien Cousteau 19:30 Well, you know, I'm a big believer in human beings, humans, you know, when they're pressed up task and create miracles, and they they could be tough. And you know, just ask anyone who's gone through hell and back in their lives, through difficult circumstances, lost loved ones or, or maybe lost everything they've owned, or maybe a combination thereof, or, or even in their own health have struggled through, you know, answering everything else. There's a horrible thing. That I hope and I wish I never wish on anyone. But when you do have to go through those things, because life has given you a certain set of cards. And if you come out of it on the other side, you've come out of it in many ways a changed person and maybe one that's more capable of readily dealing with difficult circumstances. That's to say, That's to say that right now we're going through as a, as a global society, a difficult set of circumstances that are affecting each and every one of us economically, many of us and real health sense. I know most of us probably know someone that's already been affected or has died from COVID from the pandemic, and that's, that's a horrible thing. But I hope that through all this, we, we learn from the actions and inactions that we've done Taken, so that next time we're better prepared. under threat, we're not even through this particular phase. So hopefully, as this becomes the norm in our everyday lives, we can roll with the punches, we can make better decisions, ones that make us maybe a little bit more comfortable, and more semblance of normality in our lives all while respecting other people, and maybe have a better sense of what's our plan B for next time. So that this doesn't happen in our lives again. You know, I go back to the whole aspect of STEM and just signed some general science. This is an amazing thing. It's a set of facts. And we know so little in the world that as we learn more, we've we have to reassess everything. So science doesn't care about what we know. where we stand politically where we, where we stand economically where we stand physically, you know, geographically speaking. And that's something that that is very interesting and something we can count on and something we need to be aware of. So I think, you know, as we go through all of this, hopefully, it'll give us a better understanding and better appreciation for science, and maybe one that we can count on for facts when we need to make decisions in our lives. And sometimes those decisions are very mundane, sometimes they are life and death. And we really need to be able to ground ourselves in at least one common point for all of us. kevin edwards 22:41 They've been some people have self quarantine in their bedrooms, some go away. And some people like to go underneath the water and then to their own homes, and I think that person would be you so I'm curious to understand what Proteus is, what is this photo behind you? And are people going to be living underwater in the next couple of years? Fabien Cousteau 23:05 I want to be sensitive to people's sensitivities to the current situation and not have a mad rush for people to want to live underwater. But so, yeah, I mean, I guess scuba diving is the best way to to socially isolate right. And there's a very special project that I'm working on that's called Project Proteus. And it's based on some, some previous exploits from the 1960s all the way through now, which is building and working out of an underwater habitat. A few years ago, I got a chance to lead a team to live and work from the world's only undersea laboratory laboratory called Aquarius, so nine miles offshore and 20,000 millimeters under the sea, which is short for saying 60 feet And you know, there's a very pragmatic reason for 60 feet. First of all air, or more specifically, oxygen becomes toxic for long term exposure. If you're below that particular set of 80 amps or atmospheres, which is three atmospheres. So you'd have to start noodling around with try mixes and heliox, and all that sort of thing, which becomes very expensive, and complex. But what it did allow us to do was to live underwater for 30 days, 31 days specifically, and look at how we can leverage that coefficient of time that that platform allows us for undersea research. We were able to do over three years worth of scientific research in those 31 days with my then very young team, none of us had become aquanauts at that point. So we had to train. We had to go through all the processes and the emergency personnel all these things to be able to do this. So we were all freshmen in this in this world of Aqua knots, and here we are doing 31 days which had never been done at Aquarius before. And yet we walked away, mostly unscathed. Definitely enriched and at the same time enriched in terms of education, and just wowed not only at the amount of science that we're able to do, but also at the experience itself, being able to reach over 100,000 people getting 3.4 billion impressions, so on and so forth. But most specifically connecting with 100,000 students live from the bottom of the sea throughout those 31 days and to be able to show them the amazing critters, the, you know, the human ocean connection with, why is it that every other breath that we take is generated by the ocean, you know, every glass of water that you drink is your drinking the ocean and so just trying to connect kids in a very fundamental way of of the The importance of just the majesty and beauty of that underwater world. I thought that was just amazing. So, Proteus is the next step in ocean exploration. Imagine building the International Space Station underwater, and being able to have that that platform as a common good and as a Advanced Research Station for, for bettering humanity for being able to address things like COVID. I'm now looking at chemical compositions that will be able to be synthesized instead of years and weeks and months to be able to find those next cures for cancer and pain mitigation and of course, pandemics. kevin edwards 26:39 Now what percentage of the ocean is unexplored right now? Fabien Cousteau 26:45 So if you look at the ocean as a living space, you know, all 3.5 billion cubic kilometers of volume that is 99% of the world living space. I know that in school, we talked about 72% percent of the Earth's surface But we're not thinking about the third dimension, right? So think about living space in three dimensions. You know, our Earth part is very is this little the near the ocean is an amazing place. Yeah, it's it's, it's, it's so awesome. And we've explored less than 5% of our ocean world to this day. So there's a lot left to explore. And there's a lot of mapping going on and everything else. But there's so much out there that we, as human beings need to go and do, including sending out our OBS and a UVs and submersibles but us as human beings going out as Aqua knots and scuba divers to really experience and bring back that knowledge not only the biochem but you know, engineering and just going out there as a marine biologist or, or even an astronaut to train underwater. And there's so much there that we still need to leverage to be able to not only benefit ourselves in the short term, but also make better decisions in the long term. kevin edwards 28:00 Aqua knots astronauts knots comes from the Latin word sail. Space sailor water sailor. Now, I'm curious because it seems to me like a lot of people are almost hitting the ties by the Mars exploration. But it was really odd for me from hearing from my parents how crazy and how cool the moon shot was with Kennedy and office you know, we're going to you know, go to the moon and then we put the first man on the moon haven't been back since but put the first man that was big news. And then here we have SpaceX, you have video cameras inside the the rocket right and you go up and you know what a fascinating Feat. Yeah, seems like almost no one really cared about it. You think people have changed in terms of exploration and what excites them and why do you think that is? Fabien Cousteau 28:51 Well, you know, all you have to do is read a couple of books on exploration and it gets your curiosity. It goes back to the front fundamentals of what makes us human beings right emotion it's in part and stories that we tell each other to really kind of it just share. Exploration in general is really exciting. It's some people may think I'm glad I'm not doing that. That's, that's crazy. Some people may aspire to do that because it's just so thrilling sounding. Many people may say, Wow, that's really cool. And I'm glad I'm experiencing this virtually by these people who are doing these things. You know, as we look forward into us as a society, the global society as a species, we become very philosophical we become very curious about what our evolutionary next step is, and it's only normal to look at space and and interspace meaning ocean, as far as where do we go from here? Both physic physically and and physiologically, I mean, I'm sorry. And psychologically, do we evolve and become more wise by sitting back in, in a lounge, probably not by pushing the boundaries and going into the unknown, and experiencing these new things by learning from New parameters, new physical, and psychological parameters that have been breached. We can learn more about ourselves, we can learn more about our trajectory in life. And, you know, that said, you know, not everyone's going to live under the sea, in an underwater habitat, and certainly very few people are going to be living on colonies and Mars and Europa and such at least in the foreseeable future. But the idea of it is really exciting. The idea of pushing the limits of using new technologies to go beyond what we've been capable of is what drives space exploration is what drives inner space exploration. ocean exploration is what drives, you know, new ways to dive into our brains. And for me, that's really exciting. You know, it gives us a sense of purpose, it gives us a sense of gives us the fuel in the tank of emotions, to turn the page and to read what's next. kevin edwards 31:28 Right? The curiosity what's out there? Is there any life you know, and and what's down there? And think the fascinating for me, I interviewed a guy that worked in NASA for a while and he was talking about the spin offs that come from these moonshots. These you know, I guess he'd be the see four shots, I guess, if you will, you know, what technology has come from these big ideas, the unknown things like that. Has there been any new technology, Fabian that you have come across or that has been built because of the moonshot approach. Fabien Cousteau 32:03 Yeah, I mean, you know, every time we explore somewhere, we have to be very versatile in finding a way to create tools to either analyze something or to take that next step. Because we, as physical beings are fairly fragile and fairly limited. But we, as psychological beings have unlimited imagination if we let ourselves and that allows for us to create new things, new solutions, new technologies, and so on. So first, so, you know, when, when the 1960s canon, we did that first moon landing, that really was an amazing step forward in technology at that point. And nowadays, you know, I'm looking down at my phone, and my phone probably has 100 times more power and an analytic power than what, then what they had in their space lander. And yet they were still able to do that. I mean, that takes brass that takes a lot of brass. And I think nowadays, with the technologies that we have, we might think we have very advanced technologies, but to be able to go to a place like Mars, looking at SpaceX and NASA and European Space union and so on and so forth. They're really struggling with today's technology to think of a way to get there safely. But if you look at their future projects, and other people's future projects, the creativity in the new technologies with the solar sails and so on, so forth, really bring about a lot of, of interesting Mojo to say, you know what, we are going to make it out there, we are going to be able to colonize these places because of the human spirit. And it's the same thing in the ocean. Though we're a little bit behind in terms of some of the technologies, a lot of the technologies developed today are in symbiotic relationship with space technology. And that's really exciting because, you know, I'm looking at for example, a few years ago, we used a small piece of kit called the edger tronic camera. And it essentially was a $5,000 piece of technology that you can buy off the shelf today, that shot up to 20,000 frames a second, just a year prior to that that same camera technology for the professionals cost over $280,000 to buy. And so, you know, not only is it an exercise in miniaturization, it's also an exercise in affordability and being able to be efficient about doing an exploring technologies to offer this to those who need it. For us. It was about biomimicry, it was looking at what the naked eye can't see in a blink of an eye. So if you can shoot an animal's behavior that you can't see the naked eye, but you can see what that biomimicry is, we can then analyze that, that motion, the mechanics of that motion, and use that and duplicate that in technologies that we need for inner space and space exploration. kevin edwards 35:20 You know, it sounds very similar to an organization called Singularity University and they talk a lot of Moore's law. that technology is going to either, you know, double and efficiency or half its costs in like two years or whatever cycle it's on. Now, the business case that they present is the world's greatest challenges. The world's greatest problems are also the world's greatest business opportunities. What is the economic value for business owners, funders, people with large sources of capital to invest in the oceans? I mean, we see an ocean exploration ocean living, we see sea levels rising but if we're able to homes and highways and communities underwater. I mean, that solves that problem that thinking where people have tools, you know, what is the business case right now for investing in ocean exploration? Fabien Cousteau 36:14 You know, that's a great question and one that's not asked often enough. Ray Dalio has a quote, as a matter of fact, from ocean x saying that there's a lot more value in in ocean exploration than space exploration. I forgot the exact quote, but essentially, he's putting all that he's putting his money into ocean exploration. And whether it's for going out there and looking at the resources that the ocean can provide us, preferably in a sustainable way, actually, public mandatorily in a sustainable way these days. Whether it's energy, look otech ocean thermal energy, for example. Theoretically, there's enough energy in the ocean through ocean thermal energy to provide us with nine times today's energy needs globally speaking Now, that's a bit of a fallacy in a sense that you know, you there's a there's a, there's an efficiency, push coefficient. And otech is not a panacea, just like many of the other technologies not either, but to be able to integrate in a global energy system otech and wave action and salinity, energy generation and thermal energy energy generation, and then solar and wind and so on so forth, we can have a bigger robust energy read globally speaking, and locally speaking, that will provide us with more energy than we'll ever need, all while having backup systems and being if done properly, in balance with nature, so that we don't have any more of a negative impact and that's just energy. Now imagine all the ins mentioned biochem earlier, imagine all the things that we can extract and synthesize so that we don't have an impact on the look at what we've done so far today in biochem with the fish, a deepwater sponge has a chemical composition that's now being used in chemical and targeted leukemia treatments for cancer, sir, in pain mitigation, we've extracted a chemical composition from the most venomous animal on the planet, which is a cone snail, which is an ocean animal. And we've been able to synthesize it and it's 1000 times more efficient and more potent than morphine without any of the side effects. And that's being that that's that just got sold on the market for $38 million. By by the, the, the answers, you know, keep rolling off my tongue, but you know, and that's in the context of the fact that we explored less than 5% of our ocean, well today that's not including all the microcosmic aspects of a studies that we have dotnet now put together with that all the things that we're facing today. You mentioned climate change. By being able to have a real finger on the pulse of our ocean, we can stand to start becoming proactive in our, in our decision making on land when we're talking about violent storms and so on. So rather than being reactive, right now, we're being reactive, which unfortunately costs us a huge amount of loss both economically and in human lives, because of the fact that we don't have the tools and the information necessary in the time necessary to prevent the problem. Right. So when, when a hurricane comes through, we have a couple a day or two or a couple days, maybe a week to prepare people for the impending problem. Imagine if we had weeks, maybe even months to prepare how many lives, we could save how much we could mitigate the the issue and save huge amounts economically, both on a government level and as well as on on a household level. I mean, the list goes on and on and on as to why we should invest in ocean exploration why we should invest in ocean technology. kevin edwards 40:23 So your message now to people listening to this that are inspired like I am and my mind's racing right now? What's your message? Why should they be curious about space or underwater exploration? Fabien Cousteau 40:38 Well, you know, it at the end of the day, ocean is life, no ocean, no life, no healthy ocean, no healthy future. And we are all behold the ocean, whether we like the ocean or not, whether we think of the ocean as a vacation spot, or as the essence of every other breath that we take and every glass of water that we drink. And of course, the mitigators for our crops for migratory cycles of various species that we depend on for food, the the breeding cycles, and so on and so forth. A small example would be the bluefin tuna, which is the poster child, kind of the lion, or the panda bear, if you will, of the ocean. And the bluefin tuna in the Atlantic, for example, starts in the Mediterranean Sea, migrates across the Atlantic goes down the east coast of the Atlantic and into the Gulf of Mexico. Now during that process, because of the our fishing practices, those numbers of bluefin tuna elantech are down to less than 2% of their original numbers because we're way too efficient at polishing off all the adults. On top of which they're faced with a real crisis in the Gulf where they spawn. They aggregate and spawn they reproduce in the Gulf. So the Gulf oil spill for example is a huge problem for animals such as them, because that spill will wipe out generations of bluefin tuna before they're even born. And so that's a real problem for us as a species, depending on that source for economics, input food, and it's a real problem that we can tackle. If we look at the problem in innovative ways and create sustainable solutions, and I hate that word, but sustainable solutions, both on an environmental level as well as on a business level, and that's long term sustainability for not only nature, but for ourselves and for our businesses. I'm a big proponent of encouraging CEOs who have children of their own, to make better decisions for the long term profitability of their business and for their shareholders and for the balance of the decision making process with nature. Because at the end of the day, nature doesn't care about us. We should be caring about nature because it's our life support system. And the ocean is the very epicenter of all of this. kevin edwards 43:11 Two things. My first question is this what rubs you the wrong way about the word sustainable? Fabien Cousteau 43:18 Well, I think sustainable's been overused, a little bit like, back in the early days of ecotourism people use ecotourism. And as a philosophy, it's a great idea. But unfortunately, it's been bastardized by people who may have less than the ideal way of approaching it. And they use it as a marketing tool rather than a real fundamental philosophy. And so sustainability has also had a bit of a checkered, a checkered past as well because of its misuse. Sustainability also is a very easy word to use but not an easy word to implement. Because it it, it does imply a bounce. And we we breathe, therefore we have a negative impact. And so to be able to balance that negative impact with a positive proactive impact is not as easy as it sounds, for several reasons. One of them being that for many, many, many decades since the Industrial Revolution about earlier, we've never taken into account in our balance sheets, the environmental impact because everything has been taken for granted. Everything in nature has been taken for free, when in actuality there is a very real cost to it, and never been translated into an economic cost until now. And so when you use the word sustainability, what is the value of the life of a fish? What is the value of the life of a panda bear? What is the value of the life of a tree? It's it's very hard to quantify. And when we say we're working sustainably towards something, we look at maybe at best the first layer of what that means, but never all the other related layers that makes that first layer available to us. So that tree that that's that fish that panda bear, but what about all the things that made that exist in the first place? And so we really need to take a long hard look at our language. And I propose three things. Let's change our language. First of all, there is no such thing as away. You can not throw something away. This is a closed loop system. So regardless of what you're throwing, it's not away. Number two, if we started looking at our language and looking at it in a way that that reflects respect towards our ocean, we need to stop calling it seafood start calling it sealife. We do the same thing on land we call cows cows we call rabbits rabbits. We will of course, when it ends up in our plate, we call it food. But at that very basis, when we're looking at those live animals, we see them as live animals in the ocean because it's separated by that blue veneer. We don't necessarily think of it as life. And I think that's a big mistake we're making. And third, you know, we, we are all part of the of the problem, whether we're doing good things or not. We, as human beings as individuals, we're the ultimate decision makers in our daily lives, in our homes, in our businesses and in our governments. And we can very easily stop making as much of a negative impact start making a better impact both for ourselves and for our planet by choosing better alternatives than single use plastics and such. And it's again about encouraging those businesses to cater to our wants our needs, and our and our demands. So that we can continue to be their clients, their customers, rather than choosing a different provider. So I'm all for encouraging people. But at the same time, we are responsible each and everyone else, not me, Fabian Cousteau, not you. But each and every one of us is responsible for making the positive impact. kevin edwards 47:37 Yeah, Fabian, that's a really good point you brought up as well, you know, in terms of the word sustainable, in terms of adding a value or a cost to sea life, like we do to animals on land. And I think it really isn't apolitical matter. It's also something that is confusing for a lot of people as well, how it can be apolitical for instance, conservationists. And I am not a hunter by any means at all. But a lot of people have problems with hunters who pay, you know, 11% tax on any bullets or anything like that, that provides billions of dollars to nature preservation to then hunt again. It's an odd concept to think about right? Now, I don't know anything about fish or industrial fishing for sea life now I'm gonna continue to use that word sea life. But do people? I mean, I think people are just raping the oceans right now. I mean, is there a tax? Or is there a business case that we can implement, like conservationists like hunting like wildlife and treated in the same way that we can preserve these oceans to then hunt again and get to thus grow the populations? Fabien Cousteau 48:44 And that is an excellent question. And unfortunately, the ocean has always been taken advantage of it's it's the Wild West in many ways. You know it. People see it as this endless resource for way too many decades, where we fished out over 60% of our world's wild fish stocks. We are down to less than 10% of our pelagics meaning sharks and Bill fish and things like that. And tuna. We're we're on the cusp of a major extinction, of the sixth extinction, as it's called, by the for the first time ever by one species ourselves. But we're smart enough to know this, are we wise enough to make the proper decisions? If you look at the biomass on the planet 95% of the planet's biomass is now represented by human beings and domesticated animals. That's how much we've changed the landscape of our planet. And so the wild animals that are left are very few and far between. So I'm not at all against hunting in a way that is respectful to the environment, if it's done in a proper way with regard to the animals that are that, that you're allowed to do that with, you know, deer, things like that. I personally am not a hunter. I'm not a fisherman, I'm a terrible fisherman. But if you're doing it for food, you know, I get it, I get it. But if you're doing it for sport, it does have something that bothers me a little bit to it. I won't judge on that. But I understand it, I don't agree with it. But I understand. But more importantly than any of this, it's about managing our resources in a way that's not only respectful to the resources themselves, meaning the flora and fauna of the planet, but to our future. And for that we need to look at in very basic terms as a natural resource bank account, and that bank account is going bankrupt. And so we need to not only protect what's left, but reinvest in that capital, so that we can live off the interest that bears rather than eating away what's left of the capital, because at the end of the day, we can't afford to go bankrupt because no one's going to bail us out. And so really, it's all about us. It's about our future and our survival as a species. kevin edwards 51:13 So leadership now, you know, what decisions are you going to make today that are going to impact tomorrow. That's something that's kind of been a theme of the last few examples you provided. What is the leadership needed to preserve the biomass in the oceans to explore what we don't know what is the leadership needed in today's day and age to make that happen? Fabien Cousteau 51:38 I think leadership in the ocean is just is representative of the definition of leadership in general, which is something that encompasses within a person taking initiative that leads with integrity and example, that that dares to dream, that sometimes takes take stance for a makes a decision on behalf of the betterment and in in the, maybe the betterment of society, for the for the greater good rather than putting oneself. It's really about the public good. Being a good leader is being willing to do what you're asking other people to do. It's not looking to other people to solve the problem it's looking to yourself to be part of the solution. And to be willing to get in the trenches with other people to make those things happen. You need to understand your audience. You need to be able to seek to empower people. Seek to make them part of that solution rather than blaming others, because we're never going to get out of this mess if we do. So, you know, it's a true leader is someone with with integrity, someone with the the desire to move forward regardless of circumstances and to charge into the darkness in order to find the light. kevin edwards 53:31 Fabien that's a great quote and the last one and that's why I want to ask you this question. We've talked about astronauts think about what's out there could there be more life? To you, Fabian what is down there? What do you think is down there? Fabien Cousteau 53:46 So I think as a general, as a general response, I would say we would be very egotistical and and very short sighted if we thought that there wasn't other life in the universe. Of course there is. What form that takes I have no idea. I would assume that there's probably a lot of life out there that's much more advanced, much more intelligent than we are. But that said, as far as ocean exploration, without a doubt, because we've explored less than 5% of our ocean worlds date, there's a lot left to discover, especially a lot of life left to discover underwater. What form that takes, I have no idea but I really look forward to seeing it. kevin edwards 54:30 All right, I am too because I think as mentioned to you before on the show, I just picked up surfing I'm trying to get my friends to come out but they won't go out because they're, they're afraid about what's out there right now. God bless you and God bless everyone that is exploring the ocean. I think that's a fascinating feat. Now, we just talked about leadership. We talked about the theme and what's going to impact today's decisions and then impact tomorrow. Integrity is a great trait of leadership. Now, Fabian to you, What is your definition of a real leader? Fabien Cousteau 55:05 Someone that has passion, someone that is willing to bring a community together. And someone that is willing to take that first step in the charge to whatever it is that they're doing. And, most importantly, someone that is willing to understand when they're wrong, to listen to other people to take those things into consideration and to make the best decision for the group that they're leading. I think that at the end of the day, a real leader is one that pushes the boundaries of the unknown, that goes into places that others may be scared to go, and to be willing to be criticized for that, to take responsibility, if it's the wrong direction and to give credit to those who supported him or her if it is the right direction and it does come back to benefit people. So it's a person who is a musketeer, I guess, one for all and all for one, right? kevin edwards 56:25 Bold, bold Fabian. We appreciate you coming on the podcast. It was a pleasure, getting to know you a little bit today and getting to know a lot about the underwater exploration, the ocean exploration, I hope our audience can enjoy and be inspired by and hopefully pay more attention to that sea life. So Fabien I just appreciate you coming on the podcast. or Fabian Cousteau, I'm Kevin, I was asking to go out there push boundaries of the known and always folks... Fabien Cousteau 56:52 Make your children proud. kevin edwards 56:54 Make your children proud. Keep it real. Fabian, thank you so much. Fabien Cousteau 56:58 Thank you guys. kevin edwards 57:00 Thank you lucky listeners for hanging on to this interview of the religious podcast with Fabian Cousteau. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we did if you haven't yet left a review. Let us know what you thought of this episode. What would you tell someone coming to this show for the first time? Let them know if you want to watch this interview for all the visual learners out there, well, we have all of our videos and interviews on our YouTube channel. It's at realtor's magazine. Go on there, subscribe to the page if you want to see all the guests and attend live shows. Lastly, if you want to become a real leader, you want to make decisions today that are going to impact tomorrow I highly recommend you pick up our magazine real definitely comm slash subscribe. And if you enter in coupon code podcast 25 you are going to receive 25% off a year subscription that's actually one magazine. for free, again, folks, coupon code podcast 25. All right. That's it for me. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the podcast and stay tuned for the next episode. Transcribed by https://otter.ai